Omega64

1. It's is unknown exactly when Kakashi grasped he had the Mangekyo Sharingan, but I suspect it was only after his fight with Itachi. However, even if he was aware of its presence, it wasn't until Part II that he had the stamina to actually use it. You see, Kakashi awoke the Mangekyo Sharingan before he was physically able to use it. In Part I, even using the Sharingan for a short time extremely exhausted him and bed-rid him. It was only as the series continued that Kakashi's stamina improved to where he could use the Sharingan for an entire fight without exhaustion, and even use his Mangekyo Sharingan. Basically, for most of the series Kakashi is working on his stamina and chakra levels.

2. The implication is that Sasuke is similar to Kakashi is both personality and skill set. As such, it made much more sense for him to mentor Sasuke than Naruto, because Kakashi knows how he learns. What's more, Kakashi wanted to give Sasuke a means to get stronger so he wouldn't fall to the temptation of Orochimaru, and it almost worked. Unfortunately, Itachi re-appearance undid most of that work, as it showed how far behind Sasuke was, even with Kakashi's special training.

As for Naruto, Kakashi didn't ignore him. Rather, he requested Ebisu train Naruto instead. The reasoning being that Ebisu is a Tokubetsu Jonin in instruction, so his skills of mentorship are even better than Kakashi's. Kakashi himself even said this, that Ebisu would be a better teacher for Naruto than him. This was mostly because Naruto lacked fundamental skills, and an elite teacher like Ebisu would prove excellent for Naruto.

It just so happened that Naruto stumbled upon an even better instructor, Jiraiya. Who not only had better teaching skills, but had a similar personality to Naruto which made him a better instructor.

Basically, Kakashi was doing the best he could for Naruto. Naruto just happened to stumble on to something even better. As for the Summoning Jutsu, Rasengan, and use of Kurama's chakra. The Summoning Jutsu for the toads is something Naruto only could have learned from Jiraiya. The reason the toads were more useful than ninken was because the toads have "large summons", like Gamabunta, that can make excellent use of Kurama's chakra. The Rasengan was a move Kakashi thought was ill-advised to teach Naruto, as we saw during the first time Kakashi saw Naruto do it, because he felt the technique was too dangerous. And finally, remember, Jiraiya was the only one who correctly interpreted Minato's will that Naruto learn how to control Kurama's chakra. Kakashi never sought to help Naruto learn to control the power because it was too dangerous and unnecessary.

Just because you are skilled in the Academy doesn't mean you are skilled outside of the Academy. You shouldn't get so caught up about their ages, because its less important than you think.

Take Boruto for example, he easily breased through the Academy, but ended up getting frustrated after graduating because of the increased difficulty that comes from the shinobi ranking process. His natural talent only took him so far.

This is probably what happened. Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Tsunade all graduated from Tobirama's Shinobi Academy shortly after Hashirama's death. Jiraiya, like Orochimaru and Tsunade was 6. However, Jiraiya was weaker than Orochimaru and Tsunade, and so trained hard to make up the difference. Take Sasuke and Naruto for example, despite them both graduated in the same year, they were in completely different sides of the graduating class. Sasuke was one of the top students, while Naruto was dead-last (after failing three times).

In short, just because Orochimaru and Jiraiya were both capable of graduating at 6, that doesn't necessarily mean they are on the same level ability wise.

Remember first that Jiraiya was pretty much at Naruto's level when he graduated despite the fact Naruto was 12 and he was 6.

When you graduate from the Academy early, it doesn't mean you are some kind of elite shinobi. It means it took you less time to get to the minimum level of skill needed to graduate. In short, they are the "signs" that you may become an elite shinobi. After all, if the basics are easy and quick for you to grasp, the harder stuff comes easier as well.

So, when Jiraiya took the bell test at probably 6, he was at the same level as Naruto, who was 12. And of course, odds are when Jiraiya was Naruto's age, 12, he probably was already a seasoned Chunin, while Naruto hadn't even graduated the Academy yet.

Okay did that make Sakura stronger than Naruto coming out of the academy by her finishing at the top of the class and him finishing at the bottom? At the time of graduating Naruto had the Shadow Clone Jutsu and he defeated Mizuki. From what we saw from Sakura’s fight with Ino she didn’t come off as that good.

Not quite. You see, as you saw in the Boruto anime if you watched it, is that the graduation exam is broken up into two parts. A practical exam and an academic exam. The academic exam Sakura destroyed easily, but the practical exam she did much worse on. Because of her hard focus on her appearance and academics, Sakura's physical scores dropped her below characters like Ino and Sasuke. In fact, because of Sasuke's poor teamwork skills, Ino is actually the valadictorian.

The thing is the practical exam is part jutsu demonstration and combat testing. So, even then, Sakura wasn't completely shut out because she is actually very skilled in jutsu demonstration because of her nearly perfect chakra control. It's just her combat proficiency is very weak.

This is why she can be weaker than Naruto, yet ranking so much higher than him. If the Academic exam is half the score, and jutsu demonstration and combat testing is the other half, Sakura would probably get at least a 75%. However, Naruto, who would flunk the academic portion and the jutsu demonstration because of his poor chakra, would probably get a 25%. This is why Sakura could pass on her first time, but Naruto repeatedly fails. The Shadow Clone Jutsu was enough to help Naruto pass because it apparently allowed him to get a better jutsu score, because he kept failing the Clone Jutsu.

It's be a different story if Naruto was skilled in jutsu demonstration and somewhat skilled in academics. Then, that would put him and Sakura on a more level playing field. But since he is so dim and his seal is making his chakra control so bad, there is only so much you can do.

Truth be told the academics are just fundamentals. Naruto didn't need them all that much when he had access to his more intelligent team members and team leader. For example, if Naruto had a question, Sakura would answer it. However, its not like Sakura could be stronger, just because Naruto or Sasuke were there.

That's sort of the irony, because Sakura felt she was very competent because she graduated from the Academy, but she was ignorant to how bad her physical scores meant for her ability to perform as a kunoichi.

That was why Kakashi had her take the Chunin Exam, despite the fact she probably couldn't beat any of the other participants in 1-on-1 combat. Because he wanted her to realize this. The Chunin Exam is much more about combat testing. In fact, your strength level is a strong determinate of whether you pass or not. Because as it turns out, you can flunk the academic portion as long as you are not caught cheating.

How do you think Naruto would do on the academic portion of the exam now as Hokage?

That's kind of tricky. I suppose it depends on your head canon.

Logically, since he became Hokage around a decade after the war and since he didn't really need to train that much, he should probably have been spending that decade studying to take over the Hokage position.

I'd imagine at the very least he meets the minimum requirements. He does seem to struggle in the job a lot more than Hokage in the past, but that could be just because the village is so much larger and prosperous than it was in the past. I'd imagine there probably also was a population boom, since it was implied the required number of shinobi has dramatically dropped and the fatality rate has also decreased.

Either way, in the anime after the war, Kakashi took Naruto aside with Iruka and Shikamaru and stated that if Naruto completed some supplementry education, he'd promote him to Jonin. This presumably means Kakashi was going to have Naruto tutored to the point he has the qualifications, both academically and physically, to be a Jonin. If that was the case, then he would be fine academically to be Hokage and probably could easily pass the graduation academic exam.

However, the Boruto anime, implied that Naruto never achieved Jonin, and was Genin all the way to becoming Hokage.

Part of me is annoyed because Kishimoto finds Naruto's low rank in response to his power funny. However, to me it sort of shows what a failure that ranking system is, when a Genin can't be promoted despite the fact he could kill all the Jonin in the village.

I always wanted to ask you who do you think would win if Hokage Naruto had to fight Hashirama Senju in his prime? It is said that Naruto has surpassed all the previous Hokage, but we never got to see what Hashirama could do really? You’ve probably been asked this a million times. The same with Sasuke and Madara.

You are right, I do get that question a lot. And my answer is usually always the same, "We are not aware of what Hokage Naruto is capable of". We could sit here and debate how strong Hashirama really is, but we don't know how strong Naruto is either.

Realistically, he is stronger than Hashirama at full power. Hashirama himself admitted he isn't strong enough to face the Ten-Tails' Jinchuriki, but Naruto is strong enough to pressure not only a Ten-Tails' Jinchuriki, but one who is using Infinite Tsukuyomi to harvest chakra.

Also, Hashirama stated that Naruto had about as much chakra as himself with half of Kurama and Naruto's own supply. Meaning Hashirama = Naruto + Yang Kurama. However, Naruto received Yin Kurama after the war, and what's more, as a teenager, his own chakra levels would have been still developing as well. This means he has at least another Yang Kurama's worth of chakra since he has at least Yin Kurama.

Since they are both hosts of Asura's chakra, for all we know, Hokage Naruto has as much chakra as Hashirama. Which would mean he has x2 as much since Naruto also has Kurama at his disposal.

The problem with this is Naruto, as Hokage, simply uses his Jinchuriki forms without reservation, because they are perfectly under his control. So there is no real way to know what his "base" or Sage Mode alone is capable of.

I see no reason he should be weaker than Hashirama honestly, even if we remove Six Paths Senjutsu from the equation, he should still be stronger purely because he has Kurama at his disposal.

I would say the only arguement is that Hashirama has Tailed Beast Control abilities via his Wood Release. But the problem with that is the Wood Release, like the Sharingan, only surpresses or aggrevates the chakra in the Perfect Jinchuriki, it can't seal it away. That's why Sasuke couldn't do anything to during their fight, because even if he surpresses Kurama's chakra, it doesn't matter if the seal isn't active. So there's limitations to what "control" does. Even then, I doubt someone with a "controlling" ability can actual compete with a Perfect Jinchuriki. It's like Sasuke with his fight with B, even though he had both the Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan, both of which have surpression abilities on par with Wood Release, Sasuke really couldn't do anything against the level of control of a Perfect Jinchuriki.

I would say the minute Naruto became a Perfect Jinchuriki, he surpassed a lot of the Hokage in that moment. Hashirama and maybe prime Hiruzen are the only ones that I feel still compete at that level.

As for Sasuke and Madara, if you mean pre-Jinchuriki Madara, Sasuke is "supposed" to be stronger. I say this because Madara and Sasuke are in the same boat ability wise, except Sasuke possesses the mysterious "Six Paths Power" that gives him access to Amenotejikara and the his black Chidori. Seeing as Madara was running away in his Jinchuriki form when fighting that and Naruto, it should become clear that he doesn't match up normally.

Hey, JOA. Yeah it has been quite a while hasn't it.

I usually don't involve myself in the arguement debates, because ultimately either nothing gets changed on the site or the admins kind of just pull rank on the topic. That's what caused me to distance myself from the site in general.

1. Honestly, I don't agree with that, because the chakra cloak is obviously because of Kurama. It's be one thing if something was stated that the Six Paths Sage Mode and Tailed Beast Chakra are linked, but there isn't. Rather it was revealed that the Six Paths Sage Mode is a specialized senjutsu from created from typical senjutsu by Hagoromo. In other words, just like Asura and Hagoromo never had a cloak, I don't see it as being related. The reason they had that appearance was because of Naruto's status as a Jinchuriki and Toad Sage. The eyes may have very well been the mode, and the mode is "stacked" on the Kurama Mode. That is why there is no pigmentation around the yes, because it's essentially his Sage-enhanced Kurama Mode, but a more powerful version.

2. My issue with that is that senjutsu isn't sourced from Kurama itself. It has to be added seperately. So either it's Sage Mode or Six Paths Sage Mode. As the last showed, after the war, Naruto's Sage Mode Kurama transformation still has the pigmentation. Unless the new series explains why this pigmentation went a way. I would still assume it's Six Paths Senjutsu and thus Six Paths Sage Mode.

3. Did you mean to say "The Last"? It's true he used it during the war. But if you recall, he used Six Paths Sage Mode against Sasuke, and even made use of gathering nature energy like in a normal Sage Mode.

Basically, I feel the real question is "why" would Naruto lose it. What reasoning is the site giving to explain why Kishimoto would give Naruto this power and then allow Sasuke to retain all of his?

I also don't feel the Last is any sort of evidence. Because that's like saying Goku lost the Super Saiyan 3 form just because he stopped using it. Someone restraint is appropriate. As we saw, the battle with Toneri almost destroyed the Moon, so its possible that Naruto held back for the sake of the Moon and those on it, not because he couldn't have done further. Besides, as we saw, Naruto still beat him with limited difficutly.

People shouldn't get so caught up on the appearance of the cloaks, because as we see with the new manga and the movie, their appearances are constantly changing with no explanation. So either Naruto has more forms than we think, or the illustrator and the author don't care as much about the forms appearances as we do. And I feel it's probably the latter.

There you go.

Probably for the same reason Urahara and Aizen aren't higher usually, because he is not a main character. Besides, I feel Kaitou Kid is just as smart as well. But part of the reason he is ahead of Shinichi every once in awhile is because Shinichi doesn't get much practice actually fighting against people of a similar level of intellect as him. In Forensic fields its known as the fact that most criminals are idiots, adding only a superficial level of complexity to their crimes. That's why Shinichi can solve most of them because the crimes aren't meant to be difficult for him. The thing with Kaitou Kid is Shinichi is getting better by being challenged by him, but it works both ways, because Kaitou is getting better as well because he has such a critical viewer.

Once again, let me reinterate this. These lists are how their intelligence is "perceived" it isn't a dependable list because it is merely how the fans "perceive" who is smarter. For example, Shikamaru intelligence is on full display constantly throughout Naruto, in fact, its his defining quality. For Sasuke, his intelligence is always on full display, but its known he is also very intelligent.

Understand this, you can't expect me to explain "why this character is ranked higher than this character" because these are people's personal opinions. It's just unfair to expect me to understand how these people think.

Although, I will say even though Madara is indeed intelligent, his plan has more to do with psychoanalytics than actual genius. You don't need to be a genius to plan out psychoanalytics. Basically, all Madara had to do what makes sure two people were on board with his plan, Obito and Nagato, if he could make sure both played their parts, they'd do much of the other work for them. Making people's interest align with yours to insure success is part of being a cunning leader and manipulator. It has less to do with overall intelligence and more to do with a understanding of people.

And that's just it, from this plan we can tell not that Madara insanely intelligent, but rather he has a very good understanding of people and how they typically think. Which makes sense, because he is a very old person with a lot of historical knowledge.

As for the chess, that's not how you win all the time.

Do you play chess at all?

Figuring out your opponents strategy is only part of the game, you also have to be able to move in ways your opponent doesn't see. Basically, you have to discover their plans while hiding your own. In addition, the main purpose of the game is to force them into what's known as a zugzwang, "the squeeze". By forcing your enemy into a position they can't counter-attack from, that's how you win.

That's how Light beat L, that's how Lelouch beat his enemies. You steal all opposition and then you go for the throat.

Shinichi relies on the law to be his hammer, all he has to do is discover how a crime works and that's it.

So, imagine if the murder didn't always confess their crime like they do in Detective Conan. Which, believe it or not, is not how it works in the real world. Could Shinichi still be as impressive?

Basically, if you want to put Shinichi on Light and Lelouch's level, he needs not only to be able to solve the crime, but trap the murder into confessing without them having a choice. Which he's done on occassion, but its not a part of his usually MO.

If Yusaku entered in "action", do you think he would be able to find the Organization and all abt it?

I doubt it. Remember, the issue with the Karasuma Group is not finding it, it's finding important information without being discovered. The issue with that group is because they are so secretive, they kill anyone associated with any kind of leak. It's not just an issue with deduction, it's a spy game.

I mean, they have moles and undercover CIA in the group, so they've already been "found", the only problem is they can't collect intel without causing suspicion. Because everything is so hush-hush, even among the membership.

Right now, their concern over Shinichi is drawing Bourbon towards Shinichi which in turn gives them a chance because Bourbon is associated with Rum, who is associated with the Boss.

Oh yes I almost forgot Bourbon, I've seen often that fans compare him with Shinichi, Yusaku and Kid.

Can you list the smartest characters of Detective Conan as of your opinion?

You mean among those four?

Yusaku

Shinichi/Kid

Bourbon

I consider Shinichi and Kid to be of a similar level of intelligence, however, they specialize in different things. If Kid devoted as much time as Shinichi did to mysteries, his deduction skills would be just as good. Instead, Kid is much better at pranks, magic, and bluffs; because those are the things he specialized in.

You might argue that its slightly better to be Kid, because while Kid can pretend to be Shinichi, Shinichi can't pretend to be Kid.

1.Well if there are still people who are on similar level or a bit higher you can add them as well. 

2.Aslo if we add Yusaku, then how would you rank L, Light, Near, Lelouch, Shinichi, Yusaku and Schneizel?

1. I wouldn't bother, because there is no one else higher than Bourbon in my opinion, except maybe Akai.

2. They aren't on the same level. You have to understand Lelouch and Schneizel are military and political geniuses, it's unfair to put them on the same level as Near, Yusaku, and Shinichi. But, if I had to pick, I'd say its pretty fair to put Near, Shinichi, and Yusaku all on the same tier intelligence wise, with Light and L above them, and then Schneizel and Lelouch above them.

What about Heiji?

It's constantly implied that the other detectives are a tier below Shinichi. This includes Heiji, Eisuke, and Subaru.

Since only Shinichi and Akai have been shown outwitting Bourbon, I see no reason to say anyway is higher than him.

1.Who do you think are top five swordsmen in all anime/manga you've watched/read?

2.Is it true that Akira said that UI won't be shown anymore?

1. I don't really know, because I don't pay much attention to that sort of stuff or keep lists like that. Are we talking just raw technique or actual power? Because honestly, I don't think I know many more characters other than Sesshomaru or Inuyasha from Inuyasha that could actually take those two in a fight, since their sword powers are so busted. By the end of that series their swords were so powerful they pretty much would OHKO anything they swung their swords at.

I guess maybe Trunks and Ichigo could probably beat them, because Trunks is probably strong enough to almost destroy a universe with his level of power, so his ki-enhanced sword would be devastating to anything else. And Ichigo's reiatsu power from his sword swing would crush and obliterate anything "below" him, which is pretty much everything in that universe except Yhwach and Aizen. In Bleach, their reiatsu levels are so compressed that a human would be pulverized instantly just from coming into contact with their bodies.

I would say Kenshin Himura from Rurouni Kenshin is probably the most famous anime swordsman, and he has the most iconic technique. If I had to pick, hmm, I guess my favorite at the very least would be Meliodas from Nanatasu no Taizai, Trunks from Dragon Ball, Bell Cranel from Danmachi, although technically he uses a knife so he's a knifefighter, and maybe Ikki Kurogane from Rakudai Kishi no Eiyuutan.

I would say Kenshin and Ikki are probably my favorites, because I like the nature of their technique. Suigetsu as a concept is also very good, sadly Kishi didn't put much effort into his development, but seeing what Gengetsu could so, Suigetsu had the potential to be my favorite swordsman.

2. What makes you think it won't?

2. The reason I asked was because I've read the statement but wanted to make confirm it by asking you, there are many fans who go by the names of famous creators and make false statements like "Kishimoto said that if Boruto were to become Hokage, he would be the strongest of them all" and so on.

As for what i think. I think there is no way that UI shouldn't be used against Broly, at least logically, this is because it is stated that Broly is the strongest that Goku and co have faced, meaning he's stronger than Jiren too. Since Goku struggled in his fight with Jiren and also using UI, I honestly don't think of any way on how he can beat Broly without the use of UI.

Where did you see the "statement"?

Instagram, many fans stated like it was true.

That doesn't make it true. Instagram makes it particularly suspicious. I seriously doubt Toriyama would ever do that, since he spent a good 10% of Super developing it. I would say if they can't sight a source than you should treat it as a rumor and a fake.

What's more, there's no good reason to remove it from the series either. Toriyama's already engineered it so it "only" appeared when Goku "needs" it. In other words, its not a form Goku can volunteerly enter. That makes it perfect to be used in numerous ways. Namely when Broly is pushing Goku near the end of the fight.

If anything, it wouldn't surprise me if some fans started the rumor based on a mistranslation about the nature of Goku's use of Ultra Instinct. Namely, the fact he needs someone strong enough to push him to it, so the likelihood such a foe will appear is pretty slim, meaning the likelihood of seeing it at all would be just as unlikely. Broly, as being Jiren-level, would be one such a rare individual.

However, you are 100% right about Broly. There is official statements that are proven to be accurate that Toriyama is going to have Broly displayed as strong as Jiren, if not stronger. Making him the stronger opponent thus far.

In which case, unless Goku perhaps achieves the SSGSS Evolution form that Vegeta achieved and stacked it with Kaio-ken Blue, I'd doubt he could fight Broly. In fact, it should either be a tag-team battle between him and Vegeta against Broly or just an utter squash match. Kaio-ken Blue will probably push Broly in Legendary Super Saiyan, but after that, Ultra Instinct will be the only way.

Honestly, I feel most of the fight isn't going to be in Legendary Super Saiyan, the B-Type, form. It's probably going to be just in his A-Type form. It would seem he doesn't enter it until the climax of the fight, when he's already fought Freeza, Vegeta, and Goku (to an extent). In fact, it wouldn't surprise me since he's "rising" out of the ground in the trailer that Goku probably pressures him and he ends up going into it only after Goku has pushed his A-Type, which seems to be Blue-level, into a corner, probably with Kaio-ken Blue or something just as strong.

In fact, I'd almost not accept any other alternative. People are talking about fusion being a possibility, but I would hate that considering it was already established that the strong your power is, the shorter fusion lasts. In other words, a Super Saiyan Blue Vegito or Gogeta more than likely wouldn't last long enough to fight and defeat Broly. Especially Gogeta. Vegito only lasted 10 minutes out of 60 minutes. So Gogeta probably wouldn't even last 5 minutes. That is pretty pathetic.

In fact, I'd only accept fusion in the movie if it was used that way, to stress the fact that it isn't that useful anymore. It's like when I remember people crying for it in the Tournament of Power, it's already been nerfed by the time-limits to be almost useless, so its time for people to accept its not a suitable technique when someone is that strong like Merged Zamasu, Jiren, and Broly. Only back when it was a "permanent" Potara Fusion did it have any real value.

In fact, if Toriyama is going as far as to say Broly is the strongest ever, than that means he's stronger than Merged Zamasu too. Who I personally suspect is actually stronger than Jiren. Either way, it would mean fusion is useless.

Likewise, I feel many fans would hate if they defeated Broly the same way they did in the first movie, with Goku absorbing energy from everyone to gain a temporary boost necessary to kill him.

After all, if Beerus, Golden Freeza, Goku, and Vegeta all mixed their energy together, I'd suspect that could work logically. It would just be very lame.

So you mean that Merged Zamasu may be stronger than Jiren?

Yes, but it depends on a couple of factors.

Hear me out. I am aware that the editors have stated that Jiren is supposed to be stronger, but I have my doubts with whats been said in the story versus what they establish as fact.

Namely, even though Jiren was incredible in the tournament, I would never say he was over x4 to x5 times stronger than a Super Saiyan Blue. In fact, from what we saw, he can handle up to the equivalent of x4 Super Saiyan Blue in the form of both Goku and Vegeta in a form that doubles their power. He also suitably handled Android 17 at the same time with some difficulty. This implies he is somewhere between x4 and x5 as strong as a Super Saiyan Blue.

However, Merged Zamasu is stronger than that. Starting Off, he is made of two Super Saiyan Blue level enemies. Next the Potara Fusion is stated by Old Kai and Vados to multiple the power of the combined fusion "several times". In other words, they are a few times stronger than their combined power. Even on the low end that is around x6 to x8  a Super Saiyan Blue purely based on what's been said. That would mean purely based on that he's stronger than Jiren.

However, the manga has a saving grace for the editors because it points out that untrained SSGSS users, that is, users of Blue and Rose, who haven't learned to surpress the Godly ki within their bodies will slowly lose their power over the course of a fight. At which point they will only be about 1/10 as strong as when they start off.

While the anime never stated their weakness, several elements in the story implied that the weakness does exist in the anime as well. And the point techniques like Kaio-ken Blue and the God-Blue switching are meant to overcome these weaknesses.

If that's true, than it means Jiren is without a doubt stronger in the long-run. But like I said, it still establishes Merged Zamasu as stronger in the short-run. For about the first 10 minutes of his fight, Merged Zamasu was the strongest character in Dragon Ball; rivaled only by Vegito Blue, Daishinkan, and Zen'o.

So you mean not even and angel except Daishinkan isn't stronger than Merged Zamasu in the short-run?

Well if we include Dragon Ball heroes would Kanba be even stronger? I mean Vegito was toying with merged Zamasu while against Kanba he went all out and still wasn't able to do much (While Kanba being in base form). Honestly even if the fusion lasted more I doubt he would have done more than he did.

Yes. It was stated by Toriyama that if you consider Beerus a 10, Whis would be a 15, and Goku would be a 6. Which means that if you stood two Goku's together it would be a 12, and thus, stronger than Beerus but not stronger than Whis. However, if you put three Goku's together you get 18, which would be stronger than Whis.

So, I can't say for sure whether all the angels are the same power level, excluding Daishinkan, but Whis is without a doubt weaker than Jiren and Zamasu. He is stronger than x20 Kaio-ken Blue Goku, Evolution Vegeta, and Beerus though.

To be honest, Dragon Ball Heroes isn't really canon, and even if it is, its a parallel universe situation. So the rules don't actually apply there in that some of these characters can come from parallel universe where the base mode for all the characters is much higher than in other universes.

For example, in "our" universe, SSB Vegito can't even last 10 minutes in a fight, let alone have the strength to actually use Kaio-ken to push his power further. In fact, that would only defuse him faster. The only thing that even makes remotely any sense with that is if the SSB Goku and Vegeta were see in Heroes are from an alternative reality where SSB is much weaker than the one from the Super anime and manga.

So, with that it actually makes sense why the fusion lasted longer, allowing for Kaio-ken. Likewise, how SS4 Goku can actually fight SSB Goku, when in reality SSB should have him completely outclassed.

Also, you have to realize that when it comes to Kanba, a lot of stuff is inconsistent. His dark ki for example, which has no explanation. It's possible the dark ki acts similar to Godly ki. In which case, Kanba couldn't really be said be in a base.

Also, like I said, he may come from an alternate future where the bar is much higher. For example, if you brought SSB Goku and Vegeta from the universe where Kanba comes from, possibly Goku and Vegeta would be significantly stronger than the ones that are fighting him now.

Of course, I wouldn't discount Kanba being that strong. The difference really is the Golden Great Ape form more than anything. The next episode should do a better job of establishing his power limit, because if that is his strongest form, we might get some clearer answers.

If Goku Ul would be compared with Vegito full power, who do you think has more?

Or let's say on the short-run who would be stronger bertween the two?

That's very hard to say.

Logically, both characters are using a very limited time use power. Afterwards, they are pretty much trashed.

For Vegito, the more power he uses, the shorter the length of his fusion. However, he'd need at least Super Saiyan Blue to match/fight Ultra Instinct, which is Jiren-level. Otherwise, the power difference would be too large.

In which case, he could last 10 minutes at max. Afterwards, he'd de-fuse or drop to 10% of his max. Either way, he'd be screwed.

Goku on the other hand has the Ultra Instinct's time limit, which unlike Vegito's limitations, is not something that could not be overcomed.

Goku just needs more training, as he stands now, he'd probably lose. However, the tricky part with that is the almost Pure Progress-like quality of Ultra Instinct.

You see, when in Ultra Instinct, either the Omen or Mastered version, Goku shows characteristics of Hit's Pure Progress ability. Meaning he constantly gets stronger as he fights by simply fighting something stronger than stresses him.

For Hit, the ability isn't enough to make him stronger than someone like Jiren. But for Goku, it pushes him higher and higher, faster and faster because he's a Saiyan.

So, I'd suspect that, depending on how quickly Goku amasses strength using this, he could match Vegito. The question is that only really works if he can make Ultra Instinct last, which at present, he can't.

It's honestly why Super needs to continue or get a sequel. Because as of right now, Goku is weaker, but it wouldn't take much for him to overcome.

Likewise, it shows how limited the fusion is. If Goku can become stronger than Vegito can using fusion with the time limit, it shows how useless it is now.

1.Well if Whis trains Goku but going full power thus pushing Goku to enter UI maybe Goku would be able to overcome the time problem.

2.Let's say Naruto was fighting Kimoshiki alone without Sasuke and was in the same condition like he was in anime, how do you think the fight could have ended?

1. Well, the problem becomes the level of power we are talking.

You see the "time limit" isn't a sure thing, the reason there is a "time limit" is because Goku's body is not strong enough to maintain that advanced state because he is a mortal.

Ultra Instinct is a technique of Gods. It isn't meant to be wielded by mortals.

The normal order of things is supposed to be a mortal is found who can endure divine training. That mortal then learns to wield god ki and becomes a God of Destruction Candidate. The candidate will then master god ki to the point they can enter a God of Destruction form. After enough time, the form presumably becomes permanent.

Now, when it becomes permanent is usually when the thought of mastering Ultra Instinct is entertained. Because Ultra Instinct is the "limit breaking power of the gods", you are reaching above the power of a God of Destruction to an even higher power.

So, for Goku, he's skipping becoming an actual god and using his god ki training to push himself further into Ultra Instinct. So he's skipping steps. That is what's causing all the problems, because his mortal body can handle the stress of using the ki of a god and breaking that limit to reach even higher levels.

As a result, the power kicks his ass after about 2 minutes or less. And I doubt he can simply overcome that with enough training.

So, in reality, Goku needs to go through the correct order, become a God of Destruction, and in the process he can do things like train Ultra Instinct better, to enter and exit it without issue like Beerus can, and maybe even learn to use it passively like Whis.

Until then, its a last ditch effort trump card.

Now, what I'm saying about UI Goku vs. Vegito, is that there is a clear path for Goku to master his power and become stronger, wants he learns to wield Ultra Instinct effortlessly, he should be superior to Vegito due to the Pure Progress-like ability of Ultra Instinct. Or, at the very least, he should eventually be able to maintain the form long enough to catch up with Vegito Pure Progress-wise.

However, Vegito, even if he uses the Completed Blue that is shown in the manga or Kaio-ken, cannot get around the time limit of the Potara. Its a fundamental weakness of the fusion technique. So, ultimately, there is no way for Vegito to make himself stronger without sacrificing his time limit.

So, as it is right now, Goku is not stronger than Vegito. But given enough time or training, that would train, and there is nothing really Vegito can do about it.

2. Well, honestly, the biggest issue with the Momoshiki fight was Katsuke screwing up. If he isn't present and you meant Full Power Momoshiki against Naruto, Naruto would probably still win. It may be a tough fight since all the chakra he lost prior to the fight, but Naruto didn't even use his best techniques during the fight. In fact, he never used the Shadow Clone Technique on Kurama Mode either.

Well if he separated his left chakra from absorbtion while in Kurama Mode, wouldn't he have been at a disadvantage against Momoshiki's golem, or may he have used Tailed Beast Bomb he would have beaten the golem?

Also by best techniques you mean ninjutsu ones?

I'm not quite sure what you are saying, but if you are talking about the Kurama Asura Mode, no, that would help him because it would increase his chakra control.

You are forgetting he has Boil Release, which allowed him to even bat Kaguya around.

Honestly, he really didn't use any ninjutsu against Momoshiki, physical enhancements or otherwise during their fight in the movie, and even in the anime he only really used Shadow Clone Shuriken Jutsu.

Just because someone can absorb chakra doesn't mean they absorb everything even remotely associated with chakra.

No I was talking only about Naruto making clones while in Kurama Mode but not merging them with themselves, that's why I asked that wouldn't it be bad (if not fused) cuz of chakra separation.

Not necessarily. It wouldn't be any more dangerous than his normal use of it. It would give him more overall muscle and more bodies, but less chakra per clone to work with.

By this stage though, it's pretty clear Naruto's gotten too strong to depend on the Shadow Clone Technique like he did in the past. Rather, Naruto uses it more when he is fighting multiple enemies. Which is what the jutsu was more intend for in combat anyway.

If not for Boruto, could have Naruto or Sasuke done something to prevent their death from Momoshiki's attack when he captured them with Shadow Possession?

Hypothetically, yes.

Sasuke's Amenotejikara would have allowed him to attack Momoshiki and disrupte the technique, allowing Naruto to escape as well.

Also, the power of the Shadow Possession is only porportionate to the power of the user relate to his target. It's why the technique isn't very effect against stronger enemies. Even if Sasuke didn't attack Momoshiki fully force and get the technique released, he possibly could have stalled long enough for Naruto to recover his chakra and probably break out as through sheer power.

Would Sasuke be able to decapitate Kimoshiki using Amenotejikara? I mean let's say he throws a lightning senbon(or something similar), Kimoshiki tries to absorb it, then Sasuke shifts himself with the senbon and with his chokuto cuts his head off, or does Kimoshiki have better reflexes?(This is just like the question I asked Naruto vs Kimoshiki but now everyone is absent except Sasuke who is fighting a full power Kimoshiki.)

Well, now we are getting down to the question of Momoshiki's reflexes. Which I can't necessarily speak for.

To be honest, something I noticed during the fight in the anime is that Momoshiki "kept" falling for Amenotejikara. In fact, it got him every single time. Even Naruto, Kaguya, and Madara weren't that slow.

So, to be honest, Momoshiki's reflexes seem sub-par for his power class. So, I wouldn't hold it against Sasuke if he could just decapitated him.

That being said, there's a difference between switching something and teleporting himself in terms of speed for Sasuke.

Namely, Sasuke's ability to switch objects with Amenotejikara, including himself, is faster than his ability to just shift himself with presumably just air.

Well Kaguya never failed to react against Amenotejikara as far as I remember and Sasuke used it only one time on Madara, that being said if Naruto and Sasuke used Six Paths Chibaku Tensei instead of Magnet Rasengan and Chidori they would have been able to seal him and save the trouble of Kaguya and stuff, but surely that would have spoiled the new powers they got though.

You are correct, which is why I said Kaguya isn't as bad. An example would be when Sasuke used it to teleport right above her and she still dodged him.

As for Madara, he fell for it twice, but later after analyzing started to notice its weaknesses. Hence why he increased his speed so he could take advantage of Sasuke's limited range.

Naruto meanwhile has sharp enough reflexes to block a first attack straight on, but he didn't quite have the speed to dodge, which is still very impressive.

Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke their light and shadow powers and also rinnegan and six paths senjutsu as the only way to stop Madara.

If Naruto and Sasuke got the power up but didn't have light and shadow powers to perform Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, do you think there is a logical way they could have been able to kill Madara?(before he became complete immortal)

About that. The Yin and Yang Powers were specifically a fail safe in case Madara succeeded in in launching Infinite Tsukuyomi. Because, if Madara gained access to that much chakra, it would be the only way to defeat him.

While Naruto and Sasuke were clearly trying to seal Madara before the Infinite Tsukuyomi as well, we see them batterying him around without it as well. Hagoromo's chakra transfer caused a unique alteration in Sasuke's Rinnegan via the Six Paths Power he gets from Hagoromo. That is what gives Amenotejikara to Sasuke. Likewise, Naruto actualizes the ability to understand the nature of chakra and all universal things, basically giving him an instant learning ability.

So, even though the point of the chakra transfer was to give Sasuke the Rinnegan and the Yin Power and give Naruto the Six Paths Senjutsu and the Yang Power, it actually gives them more than just that. Madara pointed out that he also had the Rinnegan and Six Paths Senjutsu, but in actuality, it was these other abilities that made it harder for Madara to fight them because he had no way to handle the rapid movement of Sasuke and rapid development of Naruto.

So yes, I think that was a chance there could have killed Madara before the Infinite Tsukuyomi. In fact, I feel that was why Madara became so desperate to get his second Rinnegan so he could launch Infinite Tsukuyomi, because even though he essentially planned to fight Sasuke and Naruto before, after actually fighting them, he saw the actual danger.

Now, whether he could have taken them after he got his second Rinnegan is another matter, likewise if he had the Rinne Sharingan. The point kind of was that Madara priorized that launch of Infinite Tsukuyomi, and rightfully so. After all, after he activated it, almost all alternatives to the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei flew out the window.

It sounds like you're saying that getting both Rinnegan, Madara was able to awaken Rinne Sharingan.

But didn't Madara awake it after he absorbed Shinju, and that was before he got the second Rinnnegan though.

1.Also if Rikudou DR Madara(no Rinne Sharingan) was to take on Naruto and Sasuke, would they have been able to defeat him without the need of SPCT. (In other words if Madara didn't cast Infinite Tsukuyomi and they had countinued the fight when he came from Kamui dimension, who would have won)

That is what I'm saying.

If you go back and re-read the chapter where Madara awakens the Rinne Sharingan. He states that it is the power of the Rinne, i.e. the Rinnegan, that provides the catalyst for the Ten-Tails' Jinchuriki to awaken the Rinne Sharingan. When the Jinchuriki possess the Rinnegan in both eyes and draws near the Moon, the Rinne Sharingan will be awakened.

This is presumably why Obito never awakened it, despite having both one Rinnegan and the Ten-Tails, because he couldn't handle the power of both Rinnegan. So while he could manage to seal the Ten-Tails inside of him with only one eye, he couldn't actually awaken the Rinne Sharingan and cast Infinite Tsukuyomi himself. This is why he instead tried to use a Tailed Beast Mode to use the Shinju's own Rinne Sharingan to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi for him. It was a clever work around since Madara made it clear that his method was the one written on the tablet, not Obito's.

Now, the husk of the Shinju that Madara absorbed had nothing to do with it. All that did was allow Madara to quickly heal from Yagai's damage and absorb the chakra that was left in the husk. The real power was the Ten-Tails that was already inside of him at that point.

1. What I meant in the last paragraph is that there is no exact way to answer that, since they never got to truly fight. Instead, Madara almost immediately activated the Rinne Sharingan and launched Infinite Tsukuyomi, jumping from one tier to the next in terms of strength.

Of course, what we do know is that Obito was very desperate to prevent Madara from getting his second Rinnegan. According to Obito, the power Madara wields as a natural Rinnegan user with both his eyes is beyond human. If he were to have both on top of being the Jinchuriki, Obito implied it would be a nightmare of unimaginable proportions.

Now, the video game implies that Naruto and Sasuke could still defeat Madara in that state, but it would be with much greater difficulty than if they fought him with only one Rinnegan. Of course, the video games are not canon and not an acceptable form of evidence.

What if they are adults and at full power fighting Rikudou DS no RS Madara(I know, I know that you don't know their full power cuz' it was never shown but I'm asking only for what you know and expect)

What are you talking about? If I don't know, how would I know what to expect. I'm sorry, but I try to keep my answers as objective as possible. It would be one thing if we actually saw something from Madara with his Rinnegan and Jinchuriki power, but we never really did besides his Limbo and Chibaku Tensei. If I don't know anything, I can't give an answer.

Besides, we haven't seen Naruto and Sasuke's full capabilities either. The enemies so far have been mid-dif level at best. I seriously doubt either Naruto or Sasuke had shown what they are now capable of, especially since all they did is use powers they already had decades ago.

How would you rank Hokage (excep Naruto) if they were to use taijutsu only?

That's pretty tricky.

Remember, Kabuto pointed out Hashirama's abilities were not fully understood by others because of their naturally high-level. Meaning his taijutsu could be superior to the others and it wouldn't have been recognized.

Other than that, Naruto stated that Tobirama was considered the best in taijutsu among the Hokage. Even though Tsunade could probably do more damage, I'd imagine Tobirama just had superior technique.

It's also something to be said that Hiruzen was able to fight both Tobirama and Hashirama at the same time despite this.

So, if I had to guess.

Hashirama is probably #1
Tobirama is probably #2
Hiruzen is probably #3
Tsunade is probably #4
Minato is probably #5
Kakashi is probably #6

1.Can you tell me at what episode did that happen?

2.But weren't they at 20% or so of their power?

Wouldn't FTG rank Minato higher than Tsunade, I mean he can just use that and boom her head is on the ground before she even realizes Minato moved.

1. I don't really recall, I seem to remember it was around the Chunin Exam arc when Lee was shown using it.

2. It wasn't that low, besides, Hiruzen had his own handicap since he was old at the time.

That's not taijutsu though, that's ninjutsu. You can't account for Space-Time Ninjutsu is a taijutsu only comparison.

So only martial arts huh?

What about Shunshin?

Not necessarily, taijutsu is a more generalized form of martial arts, it's basically any form of hand-to-hand combat.

Yeah, that's ninjutsu too. If you have questions about a technique, just check Narutopedia, that will let you know if its taijutsu or not.

I see it like this. Madara wanted to test the power of the Eight Gates because it was such a rare thing to fight against. After all, those who know of the training to achieve the release of the Eight Gates, have the discipline to perform that training, and the dedication to actually do it; are few and far between.

So, Madara wanted to enjoy it in the best way possible, by fighting with mainly hand-to-hand combat. It wasn't just Limbo, Madara in fact didn't use any ninjutsu or senjutsu during their fight. He only used the Truth-Seeking Balls.

And yes, you are right, he did almost die from fighting Guy, and it was in part because of this. However, its not like there was a situation where Madara wasn't going to win. As you pointed out, if Madara was serious he would have probably delt with Guy quickly. But that doesn't change the fact he won anyway.

After all, the most dangerous thing about the Eight Gates is that you, yourself, are essentially defeating yourself. So to beat someone with the Eight Gates, you don't actually have to fight them, just evade them.

I've been asked if Naruto could beat an Eight Gates Guy, and I stated that if Hokage Naruto knows the Flying Thunder God technique, he would easily win, because all he would have to do is teleport far away from Guy, and Guy would essentially just kill himself.

However, that doesn't change the fact that is just the sort of thing you expect from Madara's character. He's been like that ever since he's been reanimated. He's pretty much stronger than ever before and he wants to test his strength against others he considers worthy. The only real time you see him ditch a fight is when a window for the progression of his Moon Eye's Plan may be closing. Such as when he stopped pursuing his grudge re-match with Hashirama so he could try and use Obito to revive himself.

The Moon's Eye Plan was Madara's main goal, but otherwise, he was out to have fun.

I personally have no grip about the fight or its conclusion. My only complaint would be that Guy didn't die because Naruto used his random Yin-Yang Release ability to "close the gates and reignite the chakra point". However, that's less a complaint about Guy and more a complaint about that ability in general, since its obviously a plot device Kishimoto wanted to imploy to fix things about characters he wanted, while not fixing everything.

Why exactly are matching up Minato in that condition? After all, he'd have to be dead for such a match-up to even work, which would imply he was reanimated as well.

It's fine. Try avoid using third-party links though.

Yes, there are ton of benefits. First, there is no comparing the limits of human chakra control with that of a Tailed Beast. It's on a completely different level. You saw how much trouble Naruto had trying to form a Tailed Beast Ball, but how easy it was for him after obtaining a Tailed Beast Mode and Kurama's chakra control.

So, I feel it should be obvious the difference between his Nine-Tails' Chakra Mode and his Tailed Beast Mode. It's not just the chakra volume, its the chakra control.

A Perfect Jinchuriki basically has three pools of chakra; his own, the Tailed Beasts, and a seperate pool of the Tailed Beasts that exists seperate from the Tailed Beast.

When a Jinchuriki starts the process of becoming a Perfect Jinchuriki, one of the first few steps is undoing the seal and basically playing "chakra tug-of-war" with the Tailed Beast. If the Jinchuriki can seperate the "mind" of the beast from its chakra, he can wield the chakra without the Tailed Beasts influence.

When Naruto did this, he unlocked the Nine-Tails' Chakra Mode, which in term was simply him "shelving" his own chakra and using Kurama's chakra that he removed from him instead. The danger in here is that when Naruto shelves his own chakra, he leaves it vulnerable to Kurama to devour. If Kurama eats all of Naruto's chakra, Naruto dies.

However, another issue is that there is a limit to the amount of chakra the Jinchuriki removes from the beast. We saw this when Naruto ran out of the chakra completely after freeing Son Goku.

In order to get more chakra, the Jinchuriki would need to repeat the process and drag more chakra out of the Tailed Beast.

However, Naruto didn't need to do this again, because he became a Perfect Jinchuriki shortly after running out the first time.

Now, what the idea seems to be is that if a Jinchuriki is capable of defeating a Tailed Beast and steal its chakra. He can build respect with the beast because the beast will be forced to recognize the Jinchuriki's individual power. This opens the lines of communication and allows them to build mutual respect for one another.

When the respect blooms into friendship, the seal of the Jinchuriki no longer needs to be locked, because the beast is no longer trying to control or escape from the Jinchuriki, it is content working alongside the Jinchuriki. This is what makes a Perfect Jinchuriki.

Unlike regular Jinchuriki, Perfect Jinchuriki don't have to waste any effort on trying to control their Tailed Beast. Even if you could use something like the Mangekyo Sharingan to control the beast, it still doesn't compare to not having to do anything at all. And here's the reason why, chakra control.

You see, Tailed Beasts chakra control is so much better than a human's its like night and day. Even if a Jinchuriki is capable of using the chakra it steals from a Tailed Beast to turn into a Tailed Beast Mode, it wastes so much more chakra than if the Tailed Beast helped.

In addition, if the Tailed Beast is helping, you can merge chakra pools with it to create a much larger chakra volume. Meaning you aren't trading its chakra control and chakra for yours, you are combining them together, to make something much more powerful than each other.

Next is the chakra volume itself. Like I said, the Jinchuriki has three pools of chakra they can have, his own, the Tailed Beasts, and the seperate supply the Jinchuriki can use. However, normal Jinchuriki don't get access to the Tailed Beasts' personal supply, that's why they have to steal chakra to use. Sure, they "could" use it, it just wouldn't be safe. As you see with Naruto's Four-Tails' form, if the Tailed Beast is hostile and its influence overwhelms you while you are using its chakra, it will in turn rampage in your body.

On the other hand, Perfect Jinchuriki can get unrestricted access to all three pools. Because the seal's lock is not in place, the Tailed Beasts chakra runs freely. And, because, its not hostile, the chakra doesn't do damage to the Jinchuriki's body.

However, the best part is the access itself. Because the Tailed Beasts is cooperating, it gives its chakra freely, meaning chakra tug-of-war is no longer necessary. The Tailed Beast can even fill up the Jinchuriki's personal chakra supply and the seperate supply at its will as well.

So, ideally, the Perfect Jinchuriki never runs out of chakra as long as the chakra is used right. This is part of the reason Naruto feels so invincible.

Let me explain. Basically, Kurama has two pools of chakra than Naruto can use, the chakra within itself and the chakra seperate from its body. Naruto himself can just use his own chakra or the seperate supply at will, and as long as Kurama fuels the seperate supply with its own chakra, Naruto will never run out. Even Naruto's own supply of chakra will never run out as long as Kurama keeps transfering chakra to Naruto's own supply. So, as a result, Naruto never gets tired and never runs out of stamina. This is how he was able to fight for days on end during the war. As long as he has a decent amount of rest, that is to say less than a few hours, he has all his chakra back and is back at it like nothing happened.

So, you can see how much this helps a Perfect Jinchuriki compared to a regular Jinchuriki, the chakra volume is just at a completely different level. Naruto ran through several supplies of chakra from Kurama during the course of the war, if he didn't have a Perfect Jinchuriki status, this wouldn't have been possible, not only because he would have had to play chakra tug-of-war every single time, but Kurama couldn't have assisted with its chakra control to conserve and use the chakra to a better extent.

Kurama can build up chakra constantly, and seemingly without end, as long as it doesn't need to be involved in the control of the chakra itself. In short, as long as Naruto stays out of his Kurama Mode/Tailed Beast Mode, Kurama can continue to build up and supply chakra.

That is where Perfect Jinchuriki like Naruto get broken. Because Naruto himself is more than capable of maintaining a fight with say his Sage Mode or just Nine-Tails' Chakra Mode, because he's already formitable by himself. So, Naruto can fight with the Tailed Beast Mode, and when the chakra runs out, Kurama "retreats" to gather chakra, and Naruto can just use Sage Mode or Nine-Tails' Chakra Mode in the meantime while Kurama builds more chakra.

This cycle continues without end, because Kurama can just supply more and more chakra to Naruto's other pools while its gathering chakra, and although it prolongs its chakra gathering, it insures Naruto has enough chakra to continue to buy it more time. The chakra also heals Naruto if need-be, but since Naruto also has Hashirama cells, that nowadays is uncessary. Eventually, if there is a break in the fighting or Naruto wins, Kurama can finish gathering chakra, and they are right back to where they start at the beginning of the fight.

So, you can see why Sasuke had to go through so much just to get Naruto to run out of chakra. He attacked Naruto right after the battle with Kaguya, where Naruto already used a lot of his chakra, than he dragged Naruto into a battle with the other Tailed Beasts and forced Naruto to use all of his and Kurama's chakra to fight him, and finally, he forced Kurama to have to give Naruto "all" of its chakra to force it to sleep. Which insures Naruto can't get more chakra from Kurama later and use it to heal as well.

Ultimately, the only way to shut down a Perfect Jinchuriki's ability to build constant amounts of chakra is to force the Tailed Beast to sleep. But that requires a ridiculous amount of chakra, and constant attacks on the Jinchuriki without letting up. Which, as I mentioned, is near impossible if the shinobi is a Kage-level shinobi in his own right. For example, Naruto could probably take most Kage-level shinobi without Kurama's help, so you can imagine how impossible is sounds for Naruto to actually be pushed to the point that even Kurama's help isn't enough.

There's also the possiblity Naruto himself as Hokage has grown to Hashirama-levels of power, at which point, it sounds almost impossible for him actually to be defeated at this point, even by someone like Sasuke. I mean, he's possibly doubled his chakra volume since he was a teen, and Sasuke never really compared with that level of chakra back then.

Anyway, I hope that helps explain it a bit more. The moral that the Naruto story really tells with Jinchuriki is that its the people that respect the beasts that in turn wield its power to the utmost respect, because at the end of the day, the individual most capable of wielding the beast's power, is the beast itself.

But couldn't you control them enough to make them control your chakra?

Even compared to ones such as Hagoromo and his kids? His son did invent hand seals to help people manipulate chakra, but they could use jutsu without any, so i'd guess they are beyond others. Though there is reason for arguing wether or not Hagoromo can be considered human.

Overall, great explanation, it helped me a lot.

You are missing the point, if you are using your chakra control to "control" their chakra control, it already subtracts from your overall control, because you are subtracting some of your abilities to try and manipulate the Tailed Beast, while I presume, also fighting. Perfect Jinchuriki don't have to waste any effort on any of that.

You'd also run into a problem if your control slipped in the middle of a fight, and suddenly you are stuck trying to surpress the Tailed Beast while also fighting. Good luck with that.

The Tailed Beasts "are" the chakra, that's the first thing you have to understand. They are basically sentient chakra, to them manipulating chakra is like breathing.

Also, the hand signs were created to help with chakra control, you'll notice the better you are with it, the less of them you need. In other words, if Indra was good enough, they wouldn't be necessary in the first place.

Also, it's a volume question again. Sure, some can probably manipulate a relative amount of chakra perfectly for a human, but can you think of any individual that can really control "mountains" worth of chakra without some kind of medium or avatar? The answer is really no.

Now some beings, like Indra, Ashura, Hashirama, Sasuke, and Madara have avatars to manipulate greater power, but that wouldn't be possible with the avatars. Even then they probably waste chakra.

At the end of the day, you really can't get a better chakra control aid than a Tailed Beasts, the chakra is them, and they manipulate mountains worth of chakra with ease.

I see, i guess it would be too much work for benefits that can be aquired by befriending the bijuu. But is it really that easy? Defeat them a little and talk to them afterwards?

Also:

Even compared to ones such as Hagoromo and his kids? His son did invent hand seals to help people manipulate chakra, but they could use jutsu without any, so i'd guess their chakra control is beyond others'. Though there is reason for arguing wether or not Hagoromo can be considered human.

It's more complicated that that. The idea is that you have to have mutual respect, which most Jinchuriki and Tailed Beasts don't want to do, because both essentially blame the other for their issues. Jinchuriki get descriminated against because of the beast, and the beast gets entrapped and controlled by the Jinchuriki.

The irony is, is that both are mistreated. Naruto recognized this. That because both are so hated and isolated, they can bond over that hardship. But yes, beating the Tailed Beast kind of has to be first step, as Killer B and Naruto showed, because you have to prove to be worth the Tailed Beasts time. After that, they too might recognize what you share in common. That is how common ground is formed and how a real relationship can start. But its essentially to see the beasts as more than just "beasts", you have to respect them as individuals, and that's the mutual respect I talked about.

Yeah, I answered that in my second post. You probably didn't see it.

The beasts only respect the powerful, huh? Interesting. Thanks for the explanation. And yeah, i only saw the first one.

Two last things: Can bijuu gather natural energy for the host?

Can a person have multiple jinchuurikis sealed in them? I'm not talking about the fused Juubi, but the bijuu individually sealed on them. Or about how Naruto did it, since he only has Kurama inside him while the other beasts only let some chakra inside him.

1. Yes, Kurama did so far Naruto during his fight with Sasuke. Although, I'd argue that it isn't the most efficient thing to do, the Tailed Beast molding more chakra would be far more valuable. Honestly, mixing Amphibian Jutsu with a Perfect Jinchuriki would be ideal for a Perfect Jinchuriki who is also a Sage like Naruto.

2. I don't see why not. However, it would be heavily dependent on the relationship with the beast. Remember, fuinjutsu is not so advanced that sealing Tailed Beasts is easy. Even the Eight Sign Sealing Style, which is of greatest caliber, is only efficient to seal half of Kurama's chakra.

So, I'd imagine as long as the Tailed Beast doesn't actually need to be retrained, like Kurama's perfect form inside of Naruto after the war, then there's no reason he can't seal others inside as well. However, seeing as making Jinchuriki is almost likely putting a Tailed Beast in a cage, I doubt Killer B or Naruto would do this.

I always thought He only sealed half of it because if he sealed all of it it would be too much for baby Naruto. I mean, Kushina had all of the Kyuubi, and wouldn't it be the same seal since the Eight Trigrams Sealing Style is a Uzumaki technique?

About Naruto and Killer B, they could still release them instantly after the sealing.

But that logic wouldn't really make since because Kushina was a child when she became the Nine-Tails' Jinchuriki too. The strength of the child in question isn't really a big deal, especially since Naruto was already a child of a Nine-Tails' Jinchuriki.

The reality its that Kushina and Naruto likely had different seals. Naruto's Double Tetragram Seal was specifically so Naruto could control and use Kurama's power, but the previous Jinchuriki that was never their function. The original Jinchuriki were purely military deterrents, went to ward off those who would attack Konoha and to keep Kurama in check.

Minato feared Tobi, and felt the village needed to have a means to actually use Kurama as a weapon rather than simply a deterrent. That was the reason he sacrificed himself to turn Naruto into a Jinchuriki, rather than just seal it back inside of Kushina.

So, there is stronger fuinjutsu that could seal Kurama, but it wouldn't lead to a Perfect Jinchuriki, because it wouldn't be meant to control the power. Minato likely could have used said stronger fuinjutsu had he not needed to make Naruto into a weapon.

We can tell this because Minato specifically used the Dead Demon Consuming Seal to seal as much of Kurama's power as possible, but he could only manage half. He then sealed whatever was left once it was weak enough to use an Eight Sign Sealing Style on.

Don't act like its a painless process. Even if it wouldn't kill them, it would likely be extremely painful.

Also, like I said in the chakra pool explanation, it's also completely unnecessary. Naruto is strong enough as it is, and I feel Kurama might be insulted if Naruto wanted to put another Tailed Beast inside of him, like it wasn't enough.

But that wasn't his logic. He never mentioned the seal could only manage half of Kurama's chakra, he said that he could not seal Kurama forever inside him, because it would be reborn(or whatever the term for bijuu would be) without a jinchuuriki, and he couldn't take that risk. But he was able to permanently seal half of Kurama's chakra and make it weaker. I guess this would also make it easier for Naruto to gain control of Kurama.

You mean the jinchuuriki or the bijuu?

I guess i might as well say it. See, i'm asking those hypothetical questions because i'm thinking of writing an OC, the concept of which i already have, and mostly how the story will play out. But there are some details that need more elaboration. Of course, being an OC, i don't really need to do that and i can just make stuff up, but i would rather remain on the "canon" stuff, instead of doing things that go against it. Like, instead of having him be born as another Kurama jinchuuriki that Minato sealed the yin Kurama in, he would go take the reaper's mask to free Minato and seal the other half of Kurama inside him(since that is apparently a thing, which make Minato "eternally sealing half of Kurama's power" a complete void plot point).

Yes he did. I would re-visit that scene if you don't believe me. He specifically said that after he used the Dead Demon Consuming Seal on Kurama that what he said was the limit of what the Shinigami could take.

Also, it makes very little since for Minato to want to seal all within himself even if he would kill Kurama, which he wouldn't, because the whole reason he wanted to make Naruto a Jinchuriki was because he wanted Kurama's power to be of use to the village. Both Minato and Jiraiya made that perfectly clear.

So, it doesn't make any sense that Minato intended to sacrifice himself to use Dead Demon Consuming Seal to seal Kurama completely, because he wanted to make Naruto specifically into a weapon for Konoha in the first place.

Minato, when he appeared to Naruto inside of his mind, explained what as the reason for why he made his own son a Jinchuriki, it was because he had faith in Naruto's ability to control Kurama and make use of its power. It wasn't because he didn't have any other options. He sacrificed himself specifically so he give Naruto the tools he needed to defend Konoha from Tobi.

1. The Jinchuriki. Take Obito for example.

2. I figured as much, you aren't the first person who's come on here trying to do research for an OC.

Of course, you realize the fan fiction doesn't really need to use the same jutsu, you can come up with your own fuinjutsu that could seperate them. I'm simply informing you what was shown of being capable of that in the series. In order for a Yin-Kurama to be born, Kurama needs to be seperated, which requires Kurama to be removed from Naruto per the story's logic. You need to use Dead Demon Consuming Seal because that's the only fuinjutsu shown to be able to split the Tailed Beasts, and that of course would lead to that half being sealed inside of the Shinigami and needed to be released, reanimated, and transfered in order to actually go to a Jinchuriki. Just as what Minato did with Yin-Kurama in the story.

What you could do, is if you want to set it during Naruto's life, is create a situation where Yin-Kurama needs to be created, so Naruto will take the risk and have Kurama removed from him temporarily and have the Yang-Kurama sealed back into him. That would allow Naruto to live and a Yin-Kurama to be born that could in turn be sealed into another Jinchuriki.

However, if you want my opinion, it would be much easier just to create a story set after Naruto's death. At which point the possibility Kurama would be available for sealing goes up quite a bit.

Can't i seal the part of Kurama that is in the Shinigami after releasing it with the mask? BTW, couldn't Orochimaru get his arms back if he knew that?

For reanimation, there is a pretty high chance the Edo Tensei can be found in the scroll Naruto stole as a kid, as i can't believe only the Kage Bunshin was sealed there, and it were techniques invented by Tobirama. The most dangerous one he invented was Edo, and i don't think there were any that were dangerous enough to need sealing.

Also, i plan on having a ninja that is older than Naruto, but that is still alive at Naruto and Naruto Shippuden. Not too old, more like a little older than Itachi.

1. Well, the problem with that is that if you use the Dead Demon Consuming Seal you are going to bond the Yin Chakra to someone's soul. So unless you reanimate the soul temporarily so you can remove the chakra, it's going to be stuck with it.

However, Hiruzen did show you can seal objects seperately from your own soul, this is what he did with Hashirama and Tobirama's souls, as well as the arms of Orochimaru's soul.

Orochimaru did know this and that is what he did. He released his arms using the unsealing form of the Consuming Seal by sacrificing his body in the process. He then used his Living Corpse Reincarnation to just transfer to another body.

If you are asking why Orochimaru didn't do it before, I'd assume its because it would kill the host body. Orochimaru's immortality jutsu can only be performed every three years. So there's only a short window where Orochimaru could sacrifice the host body before being able to jump to a new body. If he does it too soon he won't be able transfer, and if he waits too long he won't be able to remain in the body before it rejects him.

My theory would be that Orochimaru was planning on doing it with Gen'yumaru's body shortly before he transferred to Sasuke's body. If he succeeded, he'd gain by his arms back and the Sharingan at the same time.

Problem was Sasuke attacked him before he could pull this off, so he was forced to initiate the transfer process ahead of schedule.

2. Of course, the Multiple Shadow Clone Technique was only the first jutsu on the scroll. The Scroll of Seals contains all forbidden jutsu from Hashirama's era, which would include the Edo Tensei.

Problem is that based on the fact Orochimaru learned it, I suspect its information is stored in the secret library in the Hokage's Mansion as well. Meaning the Scroll of Seals isn't the only location of the jutsu's mechanics.

So like 5 to 6 years?

If you don't mind me asking, why that age range? I would think Kakashi's generation would be ideal, because its on the cusp of the end of the Third War, and the shinobi who fought in it wouldn't be too old in the main series.

Couldn't Orochimaru have learned it from the scroll without taking it? Even Naruto was able to steal that.

And it is ideal. In fact, i was going to make him even older than Kakashi. The problem is, the climax of the story is at the ending of the Shippuden, and i'm gonna write his whole life. If i make him too old, that is a lot of writing which i'm afraid may get repetitive, or worse, i will use a bunch of timeskips which i find lazy when they are used too much or skip a lot of time. I want him to fight in the war, but i don't need him to be that old, since even kids that just graduated became soldiers there. Shisui fough there and he was only 3-4 years older than Itachi.

Being younger also fits the naive personality of someone who wants to conquer the world for good reasons.

The scroll is supposed to be more secure than the library Orochimaru stole kinjutsu from. Besides, if you read the manga, you'd know that Naruto was caught stealing the scroll by Hiruzen, and the only reason he got away was because he used the Sexy Jutsu on him.

Hmm, I'd argue Obito fits that bill, and he was 31. So I wouldn't say you can't be too old, it just has to make sense why this person is emotionally immature. Kishimoto for example used his Curse of Hatred concept to explain why Uchiha were so emotionally underdeveloped.

Also, there's other ways you can make someone young, expose him to like a stasis like situation where he gets stuck suspended for 4-5 years, and then he'd be Kakashi's age by mentally several years younger than him. Or, you could have him die and his body put into statis, and then inadvertently revived by Nagato during the attack. That could explain why he could be from Kakashi's generation and still young.

He was indeed caught, but Orochimaru>Naruto. And if Naruto could escape by turning into a naked woman, Orochimaru can think of something.

Yeah, but Obito was kinda cringy. A thirty years old man going around talking about Rin was hard to watch. And i could make him more mature regardless of age, but then his relationship with Naruto would change drastically. In one he is a naive kid who is commiting evil deeds to get a good ending, while in the other he is someone who can actually turn the world into a peaceful utopia with no contradiction to his arguments. Wether i want him to succeed in taking over the world or be talk no jutsu'd by Naruto will determine wether he is naive or not, wether he is more preocupied with revenge or getting peace, wether he is willing to do anything for his goal or has lines he won't cross even if not crossing them may cost his goal because he knows a peace aquired trhough evil deeds cannot be sustained and it will never be true peace.

I say all that, but a character's age doesn't really makes him less naive.

By stasis, do you mean like Captain America? Those are some good ideas, though the Nagato one won't work because he wouldn't have much time to get stronger and put his plan into motion. Unless he moves the plan foward after the war, but he wouldn't feel the need to considering Naruto's moderated peace. The first one is actually viable, he can be frozen before Naruto is born and reanimated when Naruto is still a kid(about 8 years old) and still have time to put his plan into motion.

You're missing the point. Your arguement was that Orochimaru should be able to sneak it because Naruto did, but Naruto didn't he was caught. So the defense isn't as weak as you seem to think. What's more, that was a gag, and I'd imagine it wasn't seen as a big deal because Naruto wasn't even a Genin, so him having the scroll wasn't that dangerous. It's why Hiruzen kind of just gave him a slap on the wrist, that and because he was being manipulated by Mizuki the entire time. Despite the scroll having probably the most dangerous jutsu in the village, because it was Naruto, they didn't treat it like that big of a deal.

True, but that doesn't change the fact that as far as the story goes, it did make sense and did happen. You'd be surprised what Naruto fans accept. I never wanted Obito to be Tobi, although I knew he would be because Kishimoto was quite predictable back in those days.

Exactly, it's just in Naruto, isolated or immature feelings make more sense when you take the individual away from regular society. It's why Obito and Pain's behavior made more sense, because you remove them from those who would critize their way of thinking. As opposed to Naruto, who always got slapped and corrected whenever he started thinking wrongly about a topic.

It's up to you, man. It's your story. I'm just giving suggestions. Besides, it depends on how strong you want him. Technically, about half a year skipped between the Invasion of Pain and the war, because we can track the time lapse between Naruto's return and the Invasion, but it speeds up rapidly before the war because we suddenly turn back into October despite just passing it.

I feel they are realistic given the state in which they are introduced, in other words, the world makes sense as the author as described it.

Was there something in particular that confuses you?

No, not like a confusion. But i am saying that the anime is based on our real life principles. The concept of chakra itself makes sense already. The chakra circulatory system for example, corresponds with the meridian system in our bodies. The energy concept may seem some confusing, since the energy is called chi by some people, but i think the background is the same.What do you think? And thanks for your interest amd tolerance for me 😅

I'm not quite sure I understand your question. You are saying the concept of chakra and the chakra pathway system makes sense to you, but you are confused about the "energy"?

The chakra is that energy, it's a substance that is a combination of spiritual and physical energy. The physical energy is energy as we know it, biological energy produced by the body from consuming things like food. Spiritual energy is mental energy brought forth by meditation, experience, and enlightenment. These two energies combine within the body and become chakra, and are wielded by shinobi through the pathway system and tenketsu.

So what exactly is your question? That is the concept makes sense? I mean, its like magic if that helps at all, if you can buy magic as a concept you should be able to buy chakra I'd imagine.

I should be more specific. What i say when confused is that the energy flowing in humans bodies called chi by some people but it is called chakra in Naruto. And i say they are not really different. As i told the meridian system and chakra pathway system are the same, the article for chakra pathway system on Narutopedia says this too. And if the physical energy and spiritual energy are real in real life too, then there is no difference from what we see from the series.

  I mean don't you think that author made a great anime and did succeed applying real lifes principles on it? I mean the series include things that are possible once the concept of the energy is not discriminated from each other.

It's not just called Chi. The "power within" is called many things by many different series. Dragon Ball Z for example calls it "ki", or just "energy".

It's a common shonen trope, but Naruto is one of the few to put that much detail into it.

That's mostly because of the amount of research Kishimoto did trying to fit his series with the actual history of the shinobi.

But you're right, the pathway system and the energy components are real life concepts. However, the actual wielding of that chakra for jutsu is pure fiction.

Still, that doesn't quite understand what you are needing from me. You already seem to understand the real life and fictional comparison. What are you asking?

The thing i asked was the energy componentsand the chakra system. Yes i already kind of understood it, even so i wanted to correct my sayings with a person like you who knows well about the series. Thanks man. And by the way i don't agree with you when it comes to the part of wielding chakra. I made pretty researches on this subject and i witnessed many things direclty or else. The Human who we know in real life is really capable of that. However the process is demanding amd requires a still mind and a healthy body. And requires caring about many things materially and spiritually. I can give you examples if you want to read. And thanks for your interest i admire your feeling of responsibility and sensitiveness. Thanks...

If I recall, she is listed as Kurenai Sarutobi in the Retsu no Sho, hence, they were married.

Besides, it doesn't really matter, she was shown with a marriage ring in the manga, so it was revealed they were married before the Retsu no Sho anyway. It just wasn't confirmed she took his surname until the Retsu no Sho. Which isn't that surprising, since her and Asuma seemed to have kept the marriage secret until Asuma's death.

Luffy's view as a Yonko, or in this case a "Gonko", is because of what he's done, not what he possesses. Being a Yonko is much more than being a tough pirate, that is just the first step. Like Blackbeard, I believe its far too early to say he's a Yonko.

I'm much more comfortable saying he's Commander-level, maybe getting close to Admiral-level.

Even in spite of his crew, I don't think of Luffy at that level, and I don't see why any self-respecting fan would. With Luffy struggling so much against the Commanders, how can anyone say he's "Kaido-level" or "Big Mom-level", when these are their subordinates and underlings.

What said he was? Mihawk is probably somewhere between Commander and Yonko like Luffy is now, maybe Admiral-level, but I feel saying he's Yonko level may be going too far.

and Kuma's level?

Hard to really say. I would like to know more about his Devil Fruit, because that is clearly his strongest trait. I'm also curious how his transition to a Pacifista has changed his powers, and if he is weaker or stronger as a result. My intuition says weaker, because the Devil Fruit is all about "how" you use it, so if Kuma's mind is all but gone, it leaves one to feel he's inferior now.

Do you think part of Luffy's awakened DF powers would be a bounce house effect?

I could see that, but I hope that isn't what it is.

I would prefer him to alter his own rubber body in someway rather than alter the ground into rubber.

Remember, unlike Doflamingo and Katakuri, Luffy's Paramecia is different, his body is in an altered state, he doesn't "generate rubber" like Doflamingo and Katakuri generate/control string and mochi. Katakuri was unique because he was a "Special Paramecia" with Logia qualities due to being made of a liquid-solid substance and being able to generate his "object".

Still, that doesn't change the fact that Luffy's body is a stark difference, in fact, I'd say he has more in common with the Zoan than with Paramecia like Doflamingo and Katakuri. WHich is why I would prefer him to just get an upgrade to his rubber, allowing him to use his harder abilities more easily and access to high forms.

Technically we are already seeing the workings of a combination form. Boundman is an offensive form, Tankman is defensive, and Snakeman is improved attack speed.

In which case, it would make more sense to be to just merge these forms under an Awakening and create a Fifth Gear, with characteristics of all of them.

Then, you could perhaps take it to the next level, and merged Fifth, Third, and Second Gear all together for a Sixth Gear.

That's what I would like to see anyway.

I see what you mean, but i'm saying a bounce room effect on the side couldn't hurt either.

I feel we are going to get one or another. Besides, I feel a "bounce room" maybe be too comedic if the story is supposed to be getting more serious.

After all, after all we've been exposed to with Kaido, can you really see Luffy bouncing him around in a bouncy castle?

See your point, but isn't that also the point Oda is making? Its even in one of his sbs, volume 65 i think.

?: "I was just thinking of all the amazing devil fruits in one piece what is the significance behind the gum gum fruit which made Oda choose this fruit for the character who is supposed to become the strongest person in the world. I know usually in OP there's a reason behind everything or a history linked back to it so I wonder who the last owner of the fruit was and why shanks was guarding it. I feel like choosing the main protagonists ability is a huge decision. I want to know what the motive behind it is."

Oda: "Ahaha, that is true. It must seem like a mystery when you consider all the other strong and cool abilities. The answer is simple. I have picked the most ridiculous ability. If the protagonist were the typical strong guy, I doubt I could continue on with this for long. No matter how serious the story gets, Luffy is there to stretch and inflate. He always give me a chance to fool around. That's the kind of manga I wanted to write."

Well, the biggest joke about that was Luffy's power to "inflate" that Oda is mentioning is the gear system.

In other words, the goofiness of something like Fourth Gear is off-set by its power.

Think, Oda puts a lot of effort into creating "logic" for why the gears make him more powerful. Lately, he's been giving Luffy "parts" of a stronger state in order to give him and his Haki and edge in battle against pirates with stronger Haki or Devil Fruits. In other words, it actually makes more sense for him to merged these parts than to create something so outside the norm.

Also, I'm not entirely convinced the "area-alterting" effect is the only form that the Paramecia Awakening can take. After all, unlike Katakuri and Doflamingo, Luffy doesn't fit certain categories of Paramecia.

Paramecia, I find, are split into three categories; Generators, Transmutaters, and Manipulators. These three categories basically cover every Paramecia shown so far. In that they either generate something, like string, are transmutated into something, like rubber, or manipulate something, like stone. Unlike Katakuri and Doflamingo, who generator string and mochi, it doesn't make much sense for Luffy to alter his enviroment when his Devil Fruit goes generate or manipulate anything external to his body from the get-go.

Besides, try thinking of it from a different perspective. What would Buggy's Awakening be?

The point I'm try to make is that transmutators are more like Zoans than they are like generators or manipulators, because their power purely resides in their bodies. So it makes more sense for Luffy's Awakening to affect his rubber body alone than alter the surroundings, especially because the latter is so far out of Luffy's fighting style while the former fits right into it.

You mean you see being Mr. Fantastic his awakening?

Sort of, he kind of already is Mr. Fantastic. The point is that the durability and strength of the rubber improves giving him superior control over his various gears by making them less taxing on his body. In short, it becomes easy for him to use Fourth Gear and it opens him up to more of the future gears.

Could a awakened gear two and three, possibly be commander?

Maybe a black rubber bullet gear?

Could haki in the right way, cause teleportation?

No, I'd imagine he'd still need Fourth Gear at least, but it wouldn't be as hard because he could control it better. What's more, a Fifth Gear would be strong enough to beat them down much easier. Allowing Luffy to rise above that commander-threshold into Yonko territory.

Personally, I'm seeing a pretty consistent trend with Luffy's Gears in Haki in terms of an enemies bounty. Second Gear is for things $100-$300 million, Gear Third for $300-$500, Fourth Gear for $600-$1 billion, and a Fifth Gear would probably be needed for stuff $1 billion+. In short, stuff like the strongest of the commanders, Admirals, and Yonko.

Ultimately, what we are hoping to see if eventually Luffy's Haki overshadows his gears. After all, that is what Luffy is in effect trying to achieve with Fourth Gear, using his Devil Fruit to make up for the weakness of his Haki. If he had stronger Haki, the forms wouldn't be as necessary.

So, in a perfect world, Luffy would be able to tank most things with just Haki alone, and use his Devil Fruit for only the most high-tier of enemies, like a true Yonko or Pirate King.

Garp has already shown you can get quite far on apparently Haki alone. In fact, it's implied Luffy still hasn't caught up to his grandfather's level, since Garp collapsed Chinjao's head with just a Haki covered fist in his youth, while Luffy had to use Third Gear and Haki to reform it. Implying that power difference between Luffy and Garp's Haki-enhanced punch right now is at leastwhatever power boost he gets from Third Gear.

To that end, if Luffy's Haki gets strong, the less he has to rely on high gears. The less he does that, the less energy he will waste. As a result, he wouldn't be tired out like he was against Cracker, Doflamingo, and Katakuri. What's more, because Fourth Gear runs on Haki, the stronger the Haki, the longer it will last.

Basically, Luffy's weakneses right now are the amount of energy his Fourth Gear burns, and the weakness of his Haki. The energy consumption is a Devil Fruit problem, with an Awakening could fix, and his Haki is something that can be mitigated with practice. Fortunately, they've already established that Luffy can improve his Haki by fighting stronger enemies. In short, Luffy's Haki will improve with every fight he's in.

This is probably because Haki is tied to strong willpower and emotion. The more intense and critical the fight is, the more Luffy's spirit strengthens, and so, the stronger his Haki gets.

People ask me if Luffy will be the strongest character when he finds the One Piece, and I say "yes". Because once Luffy's finds the One Piece, he will probably have made his way through Kaido, Big Mom, Shanks, and Blackbeard; growing his Haki more and more along the way. And, in according to Chinjao's statement, the Pirate King has the strongest Haki on the seas.

The gears sound like a crutch if I'm hearing you right?

I don't think it would be anything too complicated. That is the same sort of stuff people were theorizing for Fourth Gear, and in the end we just got Muscle Balloon. XD

Oda does put a lot of thought into Luffy's abilities, but its never really that complicated.

To me, that's why I suspect Fifth Gear is probably just a fusion of the Fourth Gears forms, giving the user the strengths/advantages of all the Fourth Gear forms, to form a "Big Man", and Sixth Gear is probably just a fusion of all of his gears together. Adding air from Third Gear on top of Fifth Gear to grow into a "Giant Man" and gain immense speed to make up for the bulking size with Second Gear.

Do you see him in a full black haki form?

I'm pretty sure he already can, it's just a question of practicality.

For example, Full Body Armament is like putting on a suit of armor. But to the same vein, the armor is only as useful as the object attacking it.

If someone only aims for Luffy's right arm, having Full Body on the rest of the body is pointless. In fact, it is just a waste.

Law implied that one can "overuse" their Haki if they use it continuously for too long. This is part of the reason Luffy's Fourth Gear has a time limit, because he can't sustain his Haki for too long. If he does, he needs at least 10 minutes to recharge it.

So, when it comes to Full Body, it's only useful if Luffy needs to block from all angles. Otherwise, it would be far more efficient to only cover the parts you need at the time. For example, when Doflamingo attacked Luffy's stomach with his Athlete Thread, Luffy covered the entire side of his stomach, and only that side, with Haki. What's more, depending on the situation, Luffy has covered all the parts of his body at seperate points when needed.

So, simply put, Luffy probably can use Full Body, it's just a question of "in what situation would it be useful?"

You see, Rayleigh explained that usually Haki users tend to gravitate to one or the other among the more common uses. Spending a majority of their time building up their skill in one of the normal two.

As a result, most Armamanet masters haven't honed their Observation skills to the same degree, and vise versa.

So, the Full Body is more useful for someone who can't predict attacks or see the future, because it allows you to pretty much become a Juggernaut, and defend against whatever attack comes your way. So knowing where an attack is coming becomes unnecessary because you'll be defended regardless.

The problem with this becomes you can't sense the power level of an attack coming. This is why Vergo and Pica both fell to Law and Zoro, because they couldn't sense the difference in strength.

By the same course, an Observation user can specialize in predicting or foreseeing attacks, but that doesn't mean they have the physical means necessary to dodge or block them. And, if you don't have the physical advantages of a Armament master, you can really get hurt if attacked by an Armament master.

For example, Katakuri was able to see most attacks coming from Luffy, but Luffy's Snakeman's Jet Culverin was too fast for him to dodge. Likewise, Luffy's initial Observation Haki was too slow to predict where Katakuri would dodge after seeing the future.

So, the key of Armament is to block and strengthen attacks to where they don't hurt you, but the key to Observation is to strengthen your senses to the point where you can avoid and predict attacks in the first place. One blocks damage, the other avoids it completely.

So, you can see why Luffy, as a user of both, can mix the two to his advantage. Double masters are far more flexible because they can do something like predict an attack with Observation and guard only the part of their body that is being attacked with Armament. This preserves Armament Haki through out the fight and allowing them to pick and choose the blows they take or dodge.

So simply, Luffy doesn't need to cover his entire body, because he can always just predict where any one attack will come from and block it. That doesn't mean he could potentially block the attack with Full Body or dodge 100% of the time Observation. He can choose what he blocks and what he dodges, and with Observation's ability to guage the strength level of an enemy, Luffy can see and choose what attacks would be better to block and which would be better to avoid.

Personally, I would like it if Luffy showed Full Body, at least once, to prove he could do it. Its just he has to be put into a situation where they would be necessary, such as an attack so large-scale and so high-speed that he'd need to guard against it with his entire body from almost all angles, thus requiring "Full Body".

Otherwise, Luffy will probably just learn to dodge attacks he can't handle with Armament, and block whatever attacks he can handle with Armament. And, in which situation, he can just block with the part of his body being attacked.

Or even levitation?

I feel "teleportation" is one of the most questionable Haki theories I've seen. Because I know where it comes from. Shanks suddenly "appeared" on Marineford ahead of his ship that was coming into harbor, implying at that time he needed a certain amount of time to step in and Coby provided that window.

So, some theorize that Shanks actually used "teleportation" through Haki after getting within a certain range, but it was never confirmed to even be Haki, it could have been a Devil Fruit. Or a Rokushiki manuever. Either way, it raised a lot of eyebrows I remember.

Honestly, I wouldn't like it if it was possible. Levitation and Telekinesis I could believe, because its been shown that Haki can affect nearby objects if the will is strong enough. In other words, you could destroy something will your will alone. If that was the case, I don't feel like moving an object up and down, whether it be yourself or something else, would be very hard either.

That's why I could buy Shanks "flying" to Marineford before I'd buy "teleporting".

I hope we see more elite Haki users like Katakuri, that was an unexpected nice treat in the Whole Cake arc.

So, I really hope someone has a similar level of skill in the Wano arc. Whether it be the Shogun or one of the last two Calamities we haven't seen.

How powerful were the creatures of rushika and how well-known is it?

You mean Rusukaina? Man, you weren't even close with that one. At least you got the "Ru" right. XD

Rayleigh said that there were 500 beasts there when Luffy arrived that Luffy could not defeat. As a result, it's clear they were strong enough to give a pirate with a $400 million bounty like Luffy a hard time.

In fact, Luffy implied that the creation of Fourth Gear was necessitated by the beasts of Rusukaina. In other words, some he needed Fourth Gear to defeat. That's considerably powerful, since Post-Time Skip Luffy is strong enough to fight $500 million bounty people without using Fourth Gear. Showing how dangerous those animals are.

However, it should be noted it wasn't just the monsters that were the challenge. Rayleigh explained that Rusukaina goes through 48 seasons a year, so you constantly have to adapt. It's what makes it the perfect training ground.

As for how well-known it is, I doubt its very well-known. It's in the Calm Belt and there was a civilization there, but that was apparently long ago. Since the Calm Belt is so hard to navigate by itself, I doubt many have even been there. Rayleigh seemed to just think of the place would be useful because he had trained there for Haki in the past. How exactly he knew of it I don't know, but seeing as he knew where Amazon Lily was, it wouldn't surprise me if he knows a lot of that general area. Amazon Lily is probably aware of it because its close to the island. Other than that, it's not even implied anyone else even knows about it.

What also should be noted that when Luffy left the island he was "the boss". In short, despite these monsters being able to challenge Fourth Gear Luffy, he eventually subjugated all of them. Probably when his Conqueror's Haki became strong enough.

Personally, I feel Luffy's training went like this.

First, Rayleigh explained and taught the basics of Haki to Luffy. All the while keeping Luffy safe against the dangerous creatures of Rusukaina.

Afterwards, he started training Luffy in how to control his Conqueror's Haki and how to use Armament and Observation through small practice sessions. Some of which he saw, like him trying to dodge Rayleigh's attacks while blindfolded.

After this, once he got the basics down, Luffy mastered Observation and Armament to the point he could use them in combat, and use Armament; Hardening.

With that, he mastered his Second and Third Gears to remove the negative effects and added Haki to them to make them stronger.

However, there were still monsters that were too strong for him, so he created Fourth Gear by combining Muscle Balloon with Haki.

After that, Luffy found some monsters were still too strong, so he learned the King Kong Gun and probably other "King" variants to handle these stronger enemies.

At some point after this, Rayleigh discussed that "future viewers" exist among the Observation Haki masters. As a result, Luffy would probably find himself completely outclassed because he couldn't master Observation to such an extent to counter them. He also explained to Luffy that combat grows Haki in addition to training, so even after Luffy completed his training, his Haki would still grow if Luffy continued to fight strong enemies.

This is supposedly around the time Luffy develops Tankman and Snakeman as variants to the usually Fourth Gear: Boundman. The Snakeman variant specifically is meant to allow Luffy to close the gap between him and the "future viewers" however, its useability is limited unless Luffy's Observation Haki grows strong enough.

Some point after this, Rayleigh left, around 6 months before Luffy's training was complete. To me, this signifies that Luffy had grown strong enough that Rayleigh wasn't needed to protect him, and Luffy had learned as much as he could from Rayleigh.

Finally, Luffy probably continued to strength his Haki on the animals of the forest. Probably trying to push his Armament and Observation as far as he could. However, around this time, Luffy's Conqueror's Haki became so strong that he could intimidate the mosnters of the island into not attacking him, effectively becoming "the boss".

So, the training of Rusukaina effectively ended when Luffy became too strong for the island's creatures. In the end, he just conquered and befriended the island.

As a result, his Conqueror's Haki is apparently strong enough to tame a "sea monster" like the Kraken. So, it raises questions if any animal is capable of defying Luffy at this point. I think the only ones that might be able to are the "Deep" Sea Kings that only Poseidon can control, and maybe Zuneisha, that only Momonosuke's disposition can control.

It also implies that Luffy "needed" to leave Rusukaina, because he had become "too strong" for the island. The animals were left unable to challenge Luffy to allow him to improve his Haki and his disposition completely destroyed any sense of hostility in them.

So, it actually works out really well, because it shows at this point Luffy "needed" to go the New World because it was left the only place that could "challenge" him, while before, he himself wasn't ready for the New World.

What do you think Ryokugyu's abilities are?

I would think it would depend on whether his "fasting" is Devil Fruit related or not. It wouldn't be the first time someone is just capable of some bizarre physical trait without it being Devil Fruit related.

However, if it is related, it may be something that allows him to get nutrition from a source other than food. The fact that he is "Green" Bull is possibly referencing plants. In which case, he could be using photosynthesis, to gain nutrition from sunlight, water, and the ground around him.

If its not related, then I suppose the next question would be if Oda is trying to keep a "theme" going for the Admirals.

Very rarely has Oda not had some kind of theme going for the groups in One Piece, especially when it comes to their Devil Fruit. For example, Kaido's crew seems to be all Zoans. Big Mom's are all food-related Paramecia. Even the Straw-Hat members were all relevant to the setting and organization they were apart of when they were introduced.

For the Admirals, initially they were all Logia. However, with Fujitora's introduction we have a Paramecia, which means the Devil Fruit-type is no long the theme.

So, we have to ask ourselves, what would be the theme?

Kizaru is Light, Fujitora is Gravity. This may be a stretch, but these are both concepts present in astrophysics. In other words, they are space terms. This makes me think, if anything, Ryokugyu's probably "space" related as well.

That could a lot of things, but its sort of important to note that among space-related terms, Light and Gravity are two of the largest. If Oda is really going that direction, which is a bit of a stretch, then personally I would think, the other most important term missing is "Mass"

In other words, the ability to control "Mass". Now a Mass of an object isn't the same as the weight. Weight is Mass x Gravity. In other words, Mass is an object that is acted on by Gravity to cause its weight.

This would explain why Ryokugyu and Fujitora are both considered monsters, and why Akainu feels Ryokugyu could handle Fujitora if necessary. Because they are polar opposites, they can control the affecting nature of the other's power.

Fujitora can't use Gravity on Ryokugyu because Ryokugyu can just change his Mass to compensate. Meanwhile, Ryokugyu can't use Mass on Fujitora because Fujitora can just change his Gravity to compensate. This would apply to the objects they use.

This at least makes the most sense to be. It's what I would "like" to see from Ryokugyu's ability.

Mostly because it also opens up the question if he can control Mass, he can probably control Kinetic Energy as well. Kinetic Energy is 1/2mv^2. If Ryokugyu can control Mass, he can manipulate the kinetic energy of an object by altering the Mass of an object in motion. So, he could throw a rock, and alter its mass to turn it into a bullet. Or turn a falling mountain into a leaf.

To me, this ability would be very OP, unless Ryokugyu is limited to what he "touches" to affect its Mass. Then again, you might argue that Fujitora's ability are too OP and should require the same restriction, which they don't have.

Either way, based on what we've heard from Doflamingo and Akainu, Ryokugyu must be considerably power because he is constantly put on the same level as Fujitora in terms of ability, and Fujitora is extremely powerful. Whether this means he has a planet-based fruit or a mass-affecting fruit, I can't say.

Where did Luffy find the time to come up with gears?

You mean his Second and Third Gear? Presumably, he was just taking Crocodile's advice that "it isn't just the power of your Devil Fruit that matters, but how you use it".

Luffy, despite how simple he is, understands how muscle operate. Our bodies can only move so fast because oxygen is needed perform activity, hence why you run out of breath while running. Your muscles are using more oxygen than you are gathering through a calm, controlled breath.

However, Luffy knows that blood is what gives your body oxygen, so if you speed up how blood moves through your body, you can hyperoxyginate your body to allow you to outperform your usual feats.

Now, presumably the reason Luffy thought to do this was because he saw Blueno using Soru, or Slave, which Luffy explained is adding extra steps to your movements to achieve enhanced speed.

Luffy however, couldn't do this normally so he got the idea to "dope himself" with oxygen by forcing his blood to move at a higher speed and in turn his muscle operate faster, thus the steam.

As for Bone Balloon. I'd guess using Enel's gold to create a giant punch may have been the inspiration, i.e. the Golden Rifle. Luffy also saw giants before and logically he knows he can grow his body by taking in air.

Of course, where Luffy figured out that he can blow air into his muscles is unknown. My guess is that Luffy is simply thinking about his Devil Fruit more critically because he was running to the limit of what he could do with it normally.

I meant when too, unless its the same thing?

It is. What I'm trying to say is there is no "special moment" where Luffy gets a hint of how to use it. He just does it.

Crocodile was the first to "imply" to Luffy that his Devil Fruit is capable of more than he thinks, and that its a user's duty to train and play with the fruit to test its limit.

For Luffy, he hadn't really come across the need to improve his Devil Fruit. It wasn't until Water 7 that Luffy had the encouragement to improve because he "physically" couldn't fight with how he was. So, because he was put in that situation, he thought of new ways to use his Devil Fruit, i.e. Second and Third Gear.

Do you see an a Yonko alliance between BM and Kaido against Luffy going through?

Depends on what happens in Wano. If Luffy wins in Wano but doesn't beat Kaido, Kaido may consider an alliance.

If Big Mom shows up in Wano and offers to help Kaido like Kuma did with Moriah in Thriller Bark, then that's another thing.

But like I said, neither is planning on this. Unlike Luffy and Law, both think they can defeat Luffy without the others help at the moment.

Meaning the nature of that conversation was not to form an alliance, but to make sure each other stands out of the other's way. Unless Kaido is about to be defeated and then sides with Big Mom, I don't see it really happening.

Chances are Kaido will be defeated before such an alliance actually happens.

Based on the latest chapter, based on his training through beasts, maybe weapon wielding ones would be a logical next step?

Maybe. Depends on how strong the baboon is. If its as strong as a Rusukaina monster than yes. Just because it wields a sword doesn't make it strong, after all, the humandrills of Kuraigana Island were sword-wielders and Zoro could beat then pre-time skip. Also, size doesn't exactly equate power either, since the kraken was probably one of the largest creatures shown and Luffy one-shot it.

Honestly, I'd be shocked if this thing could actually stand up to Boundman Luffy. If it could then it would indeed probably be stronger than a Rusukaina monster.

Should we even be surprised that Luffy could even carry a cursed sword without any true danger to himself like Zoro?

Absolutely not. Luffy's luck is almost divine-level, after all, even Gloriosa hinted it was like he was smiled on by heaven, as if he is a part of a much grander design.

If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if his luck is so strong it rebounds the curse onto those he's fighting. For example, Hawkins uses tarrot cards to guess fate and fortune, but Luffy using Nidai Kitetsu may lead to all his "fortune" turning to "bad luck".

I'm not saying that will probably happen, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it did.

Would it be a stretch to think that he may have picked up some workmanship with Ralegyh?

Probably, I'd wait to see until next chapter. You are referring to possible swordsmanship, right? I do like the idea of Luffy with a sword, but I don't think a katana is really his style. Personally, I feel he's better suited for a cutlass, although we've seen Rayleigh use jian and katana, so I guess if he learned from Rayleigh that would be the swords it would be. Problem is Rayleigh was never shown bringing a sword to the island, so unless he left one there, I don't see how that would work. It would be kind of cool if Luffy could incorporate it into his Devil Fruit fighting style like Katakuri, with his "Mochi Tsuki".

It wouldn't surprise me if Nidai Kitetsu ends up in the hands of Zoro at the end of this arc, since it's two grades above Sandai Kitetsu. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Shodai Kitetsu is on the island as well. Zoro will probably end up with swords of the same of greater grade as his Wado Ichimonji at the end of this series. For example, Ichimonji is an O Wazomono, or Great Grade Sword, which is only surpassed by the Saijo O Wazomono, or Supreme Grade Swords.

Zoro seemed ignorant to things like sword grades until he went to Loguetown, but when he learned about the Wazomono, the grade swords, he saw the value because they are better made, and thus stronger and can be used for more powerful techniques that put large burdens on the sword.

Ippon-Matsu gave him Sandai Kitetsu and Yubashiri, but while Sandai Kitetsu was just a Wazomono sword, the Yubashiri was a Ryo Wazomono, a skillful grade sword.

So, Zoro's swords qualities were Wado Ichimonji, a O Wazomono, Yubashiri, a Ryo Wazamono, and Sandai Kitetsu, a Wazamono. Yubashiri was destroyed during the Buster Call and abandoned it in Thriller Bark, and he replaced it with Shusui.

Unlike Yubashiri which was just a Ryo Wazomono, Shusui is a O Wazomono, like Wado Ichimonji.

What's more, Nidai Kitetsu is an O Wazomono too, so Luffy is currently wielding a sword with the same quality as Zoro's Ichimonji and Shusui.

Personally, I thought the swords were only one grade a part until recently, I didn't know Sandai Kitetsu was only a Wazomono, which means if Zoro traded it out for the Nidai, it would be a rather large upgrade.

The gears sound like a crutch if I'm hearing you right.

Plus, ideally, Luffy needs to get to the point where anything below warlord would only require his base form?

Indeed, that is what I am implying. The Gears take a large toll on his body, Rob Lucci even explained it as such, that even him using Second Gear is damaging to himself because he is basically doping himself on blood and hyperoxgenating his muscles to force them to perform harder.

Even if he's overcome the visual, short-term limitations of the Second and Third Gear, I doubt the damage it does in the long-run has been completely eliminated. And that's ignoring whatever long-term effects Fourth Gear is doing, which can only be worse.

Technically, Garp was Admiral-level without even a Devil Fruit if we are correct in believing so. Besides, the Shichibukai-tier is vast, someone of them couldn't even handle base Luffy as he was without Gears. Crocodile is prime example of that. While others, i.e. Mihawk, are probably still too strong for Luffy even with his improved Haki and Fourth Gear.

Now that Luffy has Haki, I'd imagine he's as strong as most of the Shichibukai in his base; Mihawk and Doflamingo are probably the only ones I would say that certainly wouldn't be the case. But most of the others I doubt are that high above him, or at all. It should go without saying for example that Buggy is far below him.

Since Garp is his grandfather, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if Luffy does get to the point where even using his Devil Fruit's gears are rare, and Haki and raw strength alone can defeat most enemies besides the highest-tiers.

Could you see the Rusukaina beasts playing a part in future battles, probably as part of the SH Fleet's beast division?

I severely doubt it.

If anything, Surume and his kind would be much more helpful anyway, because they could attack ships from the sea. It'd be like Dead Man's Chest all over again.

Seems like his base greatly improve after katakuri if the current chapter is anything to go by.

Yes. Chances are his Armament Haki and Observation Haki have increased greatly. Which of course means everything that includes Haki is strengthened as well, such as Red Hawk, Elephant Gun, and all of his Fourth Gear forms.

Would it have been a stretch to say that Luffy was the reason the Marines almost lost the paramount war, despite being out of his depth?

Yeah, I think that would be a stretch.

His determination did have a strong effect on the Whitebeard's morale though, which was the reason Whitebeard wanted to make sure he stayed safe, because he noticed the effect Luffy's drive was having on his men.

Of course, it was because of the forces Luffy brought from Impel Down, namely Inazuma and Mr. 3, that Luffy was able to get to Ace and free him in the first place. So I guess an arguement could be made that the marines almost failed because of this, because without Luffy Ace probably would have been executed when the pirates were all in the plaza, since Luffy was the one to use Conqueror's Haki in that instant to save Ace.