Omega64

Well, you know from the fact that Hashirama was so above every Kage of his time he would never be beaten by one of them 1-on-1.

Of course, that's not to say it's impossible. There are plenty of jutsu that would kill a person like Hashirama regardless of his strength. It's just a question whether Hashirama, who total skill set is unknown, can counter certain deadly jutsu or not.

Of course, jutsu of significant power, like Deidara's C0 would probably be your best bet, but there is always a chance he could whether the explosion or not. That is the problem with Wood Release as it essentially becomes a battle of who has the stronger chakra.

So, one has to accept probably the most dependable jutsu would be something like Deidara's C4, which can kill a person regardless of chakra. Still, there's always a chance since Hashirama has Lightning Release and sensing abilities via Sage Mode than he could disarm them.

So, ultimately, I feel if I was a rival Kage I'd kill Hashirama not with jutsu or in a 1-on-1 fight, but how he probably was actually killed, by swarming him with thousands of shinobi.

Remember, Hashirama is an idealist and a pacifist. So even though he could easily kill an army of shinobi, his ideals to try and end war peacefully will cause him to exhaust himself trying to protect his allies and defeat his enemies without killing them. So, honestly, if it were me, I'd use Hashirama's personality against him, it's the most effective way to bring him down.

Probably not. The whole issue with Lee fighting Gaara, was that Lee didn't have any techniques that could completely destroy Gaara's Sand Armor.

Even his high-speed Strong Fist movements with his weights removed only cracked and chipped the armor, his Primary Lotus Gaara simple substituted out of, and the Hidden Lotus was simply withstood.

So a sword, even one at highspeed, won't have really done any good.

It's why Might Guy was suspicious of why Kakashi had Sasuke copy Lee's taijutsu when Lee's taijutsu isn't enough to get past Gaara's armor. When in reality, it's because Kakashi needed Sasuke to get fast enough to use a weapon that could get past the armor, the Chidori.

It certainly has been a while. I hope you are doing well.

I'm all good. :D I believe I have been away from wikia since Janurary but have now decided tp come back after a long hiatus. 

How are you these days, have I missed much around here?

Not really, I've been very busy, so I don't have as much time for the site as I had in the past. Fortunately, or rather unfortunately I guess, the site's activity is also slowing down, so I don't need to be do that much to keep it up to date.

People are still asking questions here and there, but its far and away from what we had 1-2 years ago.

I'm sorry, but that's not enough for me to be able to look up the discussion. If you had who the discussion was with, I might be able to do something.

Of course, I remember the nature of the discussion, because I've had it many times.

It was the fact that while Sasuke cannot be said to surpass Naruto in the raw strength category, as Naruto has him utterly outclasses in terms of chakra and physical strength, Sasuke has prevalent speed skills. Some of which surpass Naruto's. Namely, his own speed can match Six Paths Sage Mode and he can further increase it using Lightning Release. He also can use Space-Time Ninjutsu to get the jump on his enemies even further.

The reason this doesn't give him an edge on Naruto is because of Naruto's reflexes and sensing abilities. Although it wasn't shown well in the anime fight, in the manga it was shown that Naruto not only had the reflexes to sense Sasuke behind him with a Chidori after teleporting behind him with Amenotejikara, but he actually had the speed to turn around, register the threat, and dodge it.

Otherwise, in a normal fight, Sasuke's speed is devastating. So it is more like Naruto is an invincible warrior while Sasuke is an undetectable assassin, a shadow.

So the two fighting becomes a little tricky, because while Sasuke's couldn't overpower Naruto, he could still really give him a run for his money, mainly due to the speed situation.

It is stated that Neji learned a lot of the Hyuga Clan techniques on his own. How does this work?

Theoretically, he probably re-invented them. Remember, Neji is a genius, even by Hyuga standards.

Odds are he probably also saw the techniques practiced, since it was stated he would sit in on Hinata's practice sessions and act as a sparing partner in his youth.

The thing was, these techniques are usually taught solely to the Main Family's househould. So regardless of what method Neji used, it was the only way he was able to learn those technique.

That's because she hit him in his stomach, the center pool from where chakra generates. In other words, she shuts down his chakra and effective knocks him out.

However, this is extremely dangerous, and I'd imagine that might have killed Naruto had he not been as strong as he was.

It's not that Neji couldn't do it, it's that he wouldn't. You weren't supposed to go for the kill if it could be helped, Neji tried multiple times for Naruto to be disqualified and declared the loser rather than attack his internal organs like he did Kidomaru.

Believe me, if Neji wanted to, he could have done that, but doing so risked Naruto's life.

Like his fight with Hinata? He did a lot of damage to her in there fight with her even having side effects a month later.

Exactly, his hostility to Hinata caused him to go overboard and do some internal damage to her heart that took over a month to fully recover from.

The Gentle Fist is an extremely dangerous fighting style, no one is denying that, it's just the tenketsu sealing tactic isn't so successful against someone with intense chakra like Naruto. Only my targetting his central point can you successfully knock him out.

Of course, the best example still is his fight with Kidomaru, despite failing to hit Kidomaru the entire fight, it just took one instance of a successful combo attack from him to severely damage Kidomaru's internal organs.

So people practically made of chakra like Naruto would be considered the gentle fist's natural enemy?

Theoretically, yes. The Gentle Fist is dangerous for a couple reasons. First, it can target internal organs straight through the body, and no matter how strong you are, there is no way to protect internal organs from damage. However, someone with immense chakra brimming with life force like Naruto, combined with Hashirama's cells and Kurama's chakra, can heal internal damage, without weaving signs. Tsunade and Sakura can heal with signs, but Naruto's method means he doesn't even need to stop fighting. You can destroy a liver and he'd heal it on the spot.

The second danger is attacking the tenketsu, however, like Naruto showed during the battle with Neji, if your chakra is strong enough you can force open the tenketsu, effectively cancelling out the effect. Now, normally the sealing of the tenketsu is very dangerous, because medical ninjutsu focuses on using the chakra network the tenketsu lie on to heal. In other words, if a Hyuga uses the Gentle Fist to seal the tenketsu and then damages the internal organs, not even immediate medical ninjutsu can save the victim. However, in Naruto's case, his chakra is too strong to seal, and it will heal the damage of its own accord.

Lastly, the reason the Gentle Fist is so dangerous is the central seal, as we saw in the OVA. If your stomach chakra is sealed, you lose your ability to flow chakra through out your body until it re-opens. In other words if a Hyuga hits your stomach just right, it can block all the chakra in your body and probably knock you out or possibly kill you.

As with the second reason, this method shuts off your entire body from recover from medical ninjutsu. But what's worse, as we saw with Naruto, without his immese chakra, he can't force open the stomach tenketsu and heal the damage.

However, in order to have strong chakra you need strong physical energy. In other words, you need to be very physically strong. Even though Naruto took such a dangerous blow from Himawari, because she didn't know how to hold back and hit him just right, he still didn't die from the attack and was just knocked out for a day. However, seeing as Naruto has an accelerated recovery rate, he probably wouldn't be knocked out for a day anyway.

Strong vs Gentle. advantage:?

You mean against each other, or just in general?

Against each other, who would have the advantage?

That would depend on their mastery. Normally, a Gentle Fist user would have the advantage, because every one of their blows would do some kind of damage.

The fact Neji always held such an advantage over Lee is proof of that. Gentle Fist is also chakra focused, so you have things like the Eight Trigrams techniques that do extra damage because they use chakra. Plus, Gentle Fist users are typically Byakugan wielders, so their enhanced vision naturally gives them an edge as well.

However, if you are a Strong Fist master, like Rock Lee or Might Guy, you probably as strong enough to use the Eight Gates, and that completely changes the playing field.

The Reverse Lotus for example is too fast for the typical Byakugan and Gentle Fist to defend against. Might Guy said so himself during Lee's battle with Gaara.

That is why the Gentle Fist was known as the best taijutsu fighting style, yet Might Guy, who doesn't practice it, was considered the best taijutsu user in the village. The Eight Gates will typically put you above even Gentle Fist masters like Hiashi or Neji Hyuga.

Now, it's possible someone could use Gentle Fist to a similar level, individuals such as Kaguya, Momoshiki, and Kinshiki immediately come to mind. Because their base strength is comparable to the level of power give to the upper gates of the Eight Gates.

The Kekkei Mora of Kaguya lets her use Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack for example, which when used alongside the Byakugan, is considered the strongest offensive ability according to the Fourth Databook.

To be honest, its more apples to oranges. The Strong Fist is essentially the polar opposite of Gentle Fist, its quantity vs. quality.

You see, normally, if two people of equal power fight each other, the individual with a superior fighting technique will win. So, even something like Lee who can fully compete with Neji in terms of strength, stamina, and endurance; can't beat him because Neji's fighting style is just too superior.

To get around that "quality", Guy and Lee battle it with "quantity". If your fighting style can't match up, then you overwhelm with raw physical strength. Pushing your strength, stamina, and endurance to superhuman levels to overcome the gap created by Gentle Fist. That is what Strong Fist is.

From what I can tell, Gentle Fist focuses on flexibility and chakra control. It isn't necessarily about being physically strong. Because it uses chakra to attack internal organs which you have no way to protect, its not like you have to be physically stronger than an enemy to beat them.

After all, if that was the case, then Lee would have Neji beat. It was shown in a flashback that only Lee had the endurance to continue the Lotus training that Guy put Lee, Neji, and Tenten through. Which means when it comes to raw strength and endurance, Lee has Neji beat. It's just Neji's fighting style is just too superior to hold advantage on that. That is what that means.

Gentle Fist makes full use of the Byakugan. The flexibilty not only helps with attacks, but also defense. Because the Byakugan offers almost 360 degrees of telescopic, long-range vision, a user can see almost any attack coming, and with superior flexibility, can move and dodge an attack for almost any angle. We saw this in Neji's battle with Kidomaru. Even if Neji doesn't have superior speed, his visual prowess and flexibility increases his reaction time, allowing him to dodge attacks he normally shouldn't be able to. Such as hundreds of sticky spider gold kunai coming at him all at once.

What's more the X-ray feature allows Neji to see internal organs and tenketsu, allowing him to specifically target organs for injury.

Meanwhile, the Strong Fist style is just about increasing physical strength, and offers techniques that emphasize the use of this strength. Because it doesn't use chakra, it's just about attacking forms, and nothing about it prevents it from being copied. It's why Lee says the fighting style is very easy to understand, because its so straight forward. There is no clever moves or weaknesses, it's just straight hand-to-hand.

The Gentle Fist on the other hand is very sneaky by contrast. Not only are some of the moves forbidden to be taught, but specific techniques are created to make up for the weaknesses of other moves. By doing so a Hyuga can compensate for a weakness of one move by learning another.

For example, the 64 Palms is considered to be the forefront of Hyuga flexibility and Gentle Fist mastery, but because it leaves the Byakugan's blindspot exposed, the Hyuga created the Rotation to compensate. By just expelling chakra any spinning, it allows the Gentle Fist user to defend against blindspot attacks.

Likewise, the Rotation technique has weaknesses of its own. Because it requires spinning, if anything prevents the spinning, or slows down the user, they can't perform it.

And finally, the Rotation technique can be compensated with the One Blow Body technique. The user can expel chakra from the tenketsu to blow off things that might be retricting their movements and spinning.

This is what I mean about apples and oranges, while Strong Fist is straight forward, Gentle Fist is much more complex and the techniques are strong but have weaknesses besides the usual things like the level of strengt.

Do you think it's coincidence that Naruto has pretty much beaten powerful users of each of the dojustu?

And is that something that could be done by anyone?

Not at all, it's obvious planned. Naruto essentially worked his way up the shinobi hierarchy, both in rank and in terms of power.

Since he was fighting the strongest Genin, it only made sense he'd face the stronger Konoha Genin, a Hyuga Genin, Neji. And Sasuke and his are as Tobi pointed out, pretty much predestined to fight. What's more, it made sense his battles would include a match against the strongest Konoha Missing-nin, Madara. Finally, the Rinnegan being in his sibling students possession and him having to fight him was part of that whole "graduation" sort of sub-arc the Invasion of Pain presented. Not only was Naruto avenging Jiraiya, but he was also establishing himself as the strongest of Jiraiya's students, even stronger than Jiraiya himself.

Probably not. Naruto is unique qualified because he was both a Jinchuriki, Perfect Jinchuriki, and a Sage. Jinchuriki have an easier time against the Byakugan because they can force their tenketsu open with extreme chakra and heal any internal damage. Perfect Jinchuriki have an easier time against the Sharingan because the Tailed Beast can break genjutsu, they also are some of the only beings that can rival the Perfect Susano'o raw power. And a Sage is best suited for fighting the Rinnegan, because as Naruto showed, if you can't multiple your senses and battle prowess among six bodies like the Six Paths of Pain, empowering yourself to overpower all six is the next best thing.

Graduation?

Plus, would it be easier to say that he became the ultimate natural enemy of the three great dojustu?

So to speak, a sucession, of the apprentice succeeding the master. You see Naruto graduate from his apprenticeship, not only becoming a superior shinobi and Sage than Jiraiya, but also taking up his master's dreams. Namely his dream to rid the world of hatred and let the people live in peace.

Well, I don't think I'd go that far. Just because he can resist some of the more powerful abilities, doesn't mean he is an "ultimate natural enemy". If that was the case, then Sasuke, who uses both Rinnegan and Sharingan, wouldn't be able to be considered his rival.

I see it more as he is a code match for them. A foil so to speak.

First, it's impossible for it to actually be Jiraiya, since Kabuto pointed out his body was lost at the bottom of the sea around Amegakure under pressure so great not even Manda II could reach him to allow Kabuto to access his DNA. Unless someone scoped the body while it was sinking or actually endured the pressure to retrieve the corpse. Logically, since the body sunk that deep that Kabuto couldn't find it, it would make sense that it didn't decompose very fast, because a corpse will decompse slower underwater than it would in the air.

If Nagato did bring Jiraiya back, he'd just die again. What's more, as seen with Obito, it's very stressful to just bring back one person if they've been dead an extremely long time. So the likelihood that Nagato revived Jiraiya, who was about a months time dead, on top of everyone else who was a few hours dead, I feel is extremely unlikely.

Finally, I really hope it isn't Jiraiya, because it would needlessly complicate the nature of his death and the impact it created.

Needless to say, there's heavily implied to be a relationship there. Still, even with the mask, it's clear that Koji is far too young to be Jiraiya himself. Also, I doubt given Jiraiya's life-long love for Tsunade that he would have a child. A former disciple is possible, but the fact he seems to be about Naruto's age is sort of odd, give Jiraiya was so focused on studying Orochimaru's movements, it doesn't seem to be a proper time for a student unless it happened at the same time as Naruto.

Now, with the dawn of the kind of genetic engineering and bio-engineering that we are seeing in Boruto, it is possible it is a clone of sorts, similar to Mitsuki. He seems to be around the same age as "Log", who is an older form of Mitsuki, so it's possible Jigen or another member of Kara could have retrieved the DNA of Jiraiya from another source and used Orochimaru's cloning method to make Koji.

1. It's is unknown exactly when Kakashi grasped he had the Mangekyo Sharingan, but I suspect it was only after his fight with Itachi. However, even if he was aware of its presence, it wasn't until Part II that he had the stamina to actually use it. You see, Kakashi awoke the Mangekyo Sharingan before he was physically able to use it. In Part I, even using the Sharingan for a short time extremely exhausted him and bed-rid him. It was only as the series continued that Kakashi's stamina improved to where he could use the Sharingan for an entire fight without exhaustion, and even use his Mangekyo Sharingan. Basically, for most of the series Kakashi is working on his stamina and chakra levels.

2. The implication is that Sasuke is similar to Kakashi is both personality and skill set. As such, it made much more sense for him to mentor Sasuke than Naruto, because Kakashi knows how he learns. What's more, Kakashi wanted to give Sasuke a means to get stronger so he wouldn't fall to the temptation of Orochimaru, and it almost worked. Unfortunately, Itachi re-appearance undid most of that work, as it showed how far behind Sasuke was, even with Kakashi's special training.

As for Naruto, Kakashi didn't ignore him. Rather, he requested Ebisu train Naruto instead. The reasoning being that Ebisu is a Tokubetsu Jonin in instruction, so his skills of mentorship are even better than Kakashi's. Kakashi himself even said this, that Ebisu would be a better teacher for Naruto than him. This was mostly because Naruto lacked fundamental skills, and an elite teacher like Ebisu would prove excellent for Naruto.

It just so happened that Naruto stumbled upon an even better instructor, Jiraiya. Who not only had better teaching skills, but had a similar personality to Naruto which made him a better instructor.

Basically, Kakashi was doing the best he could for Naruto. Naruto just happened to stumble on to something even better. As for the Summoning Jutsu, Rasengan, and use of Kurama's chakra. The Summoning Jutsu for the toads is something Naruto only could have learned from Jiraiya. The reason the toads were more useful than ninken was because the toads have "large summons", like Gamabunta, that can make excellent use of Kurama's chakra. The Rasengan was a move Kakashi thought was ill-advised to teach Naruto, as we saw during the first time Kakashi saw Naruto do it, because he felt the technique was too dangerous. And finally, remember, Jiraiya was the only one who correctly interpreted Minato's will that Naruto learn how to control Kurama's chakra. Kakashi never sought to help Naruto learn to control the power because it was too dangerous and unnecessary.

Just because you are skilled in the Academy doesn't mean you are skilled outside of the Academy. You shouldn't get so caught up about their ages, because its less important than you think.

Take Boruto for example, he easily breased through the Academy, but ended up getting frustrated after graduating because of the increased difficulty that comes from the shinobi ranking process. His natural talent only took him so far.

This is probably what happened. Jiraiya, Orochimaru, and Tsunade all graduated from Tobirama's Shinobi Academy shortly after Hashirama's death. Jiraiya, like Orochimaru and Tsunade was 6. However, Jiraiya was weaker than Orochimaru and Tsunade, and so trained hard to make up the difference. Take Sasuke and Naruto for example, despite them both graduated in the same year, they were in completely different sides of the graduating class. Sasuke was one of the top students, while Naruto was dead-last (after failing three times).

In short, just because Orochimaru and Jiraiya were both capable of graduating at 6, that doesn't necessarily mean they are on the same level ability wise.

Remember first that Jiraiya was pretty much at Naruto's level when he graduated despite the fact Naruto was 12 and he was 6.

When you graduate from the Academy early, it doesn't mean you are some kind of elite shinobi. It means it took you less time to get to the minimum level of skill needed to graduate. In short, they are the "signs" that you may become an elite shinobi. After all, if the basics are easy and quick for you to grasp, the harder stuff comes easier as well.

So, when Jiraiya took the bell test at probably 6, he was at the same level as Naruto, who was 12. And of course, odds are when Jiraiya was Naruto's age, 12, he probably was already a seasoned Chunin, while Naruto hadn't even graduated the Academy yet.

Okay did that make Sakura stronger than Naruto coming out of the academy by her finishing at the top of the class and him finishing at the bottom? At the time of graduating Naruto had the Shadow Clone Jutsu and he defeated Mizuki. From what we saw from Sakura’s fight with Ino she didn’t come off as that good.

Not quite. You see, as you saw in the Boruto anime if you watched it, is that the graduation exam is broken up into two parts. A practical exam and an academic exam. The academic exam Sakura destroyed easily, but the practical exam she did much worse on. Because of her hard focus on her appearance and academics, Sakura's physical scores dropped her below characters like Ino and Sasuke. In fact, because of Sasuke's poor teamwork skills, Ino is actually the valadictorian.

The thing is the practical exam is part jutsu demonstration and combat testing. So, even then, Sakura wasn't completely shut out because she is actually very skilled in jutsu demonstration because of her nearly perfect chakra control. It's just her combat proficiency is very weak.

This is why she can be weaker than Naruto, yet ranking so much higher than him. If the Academic exam is half the score, and jutsu demonstration and combat testing is the other half, Sakura would probably get at least a 75%. However, Naruto, who would flunk the academic portion and the jutsu demonstration because of his poor chakra, would probably get a 25%. This is why Sakura could pass on her first time, but Naruto repeatedly fails. The Shadow Clone Jutsu was enough to help Naruto pass because it apparently allowed him to get a better jutsu score, because he kept failing the Clone Jutsu.

It's be a different story if Naruto was skilled in jutsu demonstration and somewhat skilled in academics. Then, that would put him and Sakura on a more level playing field. But since he is so dim and his seal is making his chakra control so bad, there is only so much you can do.

Truth be told the academics are just fundamentals. Naruto didn't need them all that much when he had access to his more intelligent team members and team leader. For example, if Naruto had a question, Sakura would answer it. However, its not like Sakura could be stronger, just because Naruto or Sasuke were there.

That's sort of the irony, because Sakura felt she was very competent because she graduated from the Academy, but she was ignorant to how bad her physical scores meant for her ability to perform as a kunoichi.

That was why Kakashi had her take the Chunin Exam, despite the fact she probably couldn't beat any of the other participants in 1-on-1 combat. Because he wanted her to realize this. The Chunin Exam is much more about combat testing. In fact, your strength level is a strong determinate of whether you pass or not. Because as it turns out, you can flunk the academic portion as long as you are not caught cheating.

How do you think Naruto would do on the academic portion of the exam now as Hokage?

That's kind of tricky. I suppose it depends on your head canon.

Logically, since he became Hokage around a decade after the war and since he didn't really need to train that much, he should probably have been spending that decade studying to take over the Hokage position.

I'd imagine at the very least he meets the minimum requirements. He does seem to struggle in the job a lot more than Hokage in the past, but that could be just because the village is so much larger and prosperous than it was in the past. I'd imagine there probably also was a population boom, since it was implied the required number of shinobi has dramatically dropped and the fatality rate has also decreased.

Either way, in the anime after the war, Kakashi took Naruto aside with Iruka and Shikamaru and stated that if Naruto completed some supplementry education, he'd promote him to Jonin. This presumably means Kakashi was going to have Naruto tutored to the point he has the qualifications, both academically and physically, to be a Jonin. If that was the case, then he would be fine academically to be Hokage and probably could easily pass the graduation academic exam.

However, the Boruto anime, implied that Naruto never achieved Jonin, and was Genin all the way to becoming Hokage.

Part of me is annoyed because Kishimoto finds Naruto's low rank in response to his power funny. However, to me it sort of shows what a failure that ranking system is, when a Genin can't be promoted despite the fact he could kill all the Jonin in the village.

I always wanted to ask you who do you think would win if Hokage Naruto had to fight Hashirama Senju in his prime? It is said that Naruto has surpassed all the previous Hokage, but we never got to see what Hashirama could do really? You’ve probably been asked this a million times. The same with Sasuke and Madara.

You are right, I do get that question a lot. And my answer is usually always the same, "We are not aware of what Hokage Naruto is capable of". We could sit here and debate how strong Hashirama really is, but we don't know how strong Naruto is either.

Realistically, he is stronger than Hashirama at full power. Hashirama himself admitted he isn't strong enough to face the Ten-Tails' Jinchuriki, but Naruto is strong enough to pressure not only a Ten-Tails' Jinchuriki, but one who is using Infinite Tsukuyomi to harvest chakra.

Also, Hashirama stated that Naruto had about as much chakra as himself with half of Kurama and Naruto's own supply. Meaning Hashirama = Naruto + Yang Kurama. However, Naruto received Yin Kurama after the war, and what's more, as a teenager, his own chakra levels would have been still developing as well. This means he has at least another Yang Kurama's worth of chakra since he has at least Yin Kurama.

Since they are both hosts of Asura's chakra, for all we know, Hokage Naruto has as much chakra as Hashirama. Which would mean he has x2 as much since Naruto also has Kurama at his disposal.

The problem with this is Naruto, as Hokage, simply uses his Jinchuriki forms without reservation, because they are perfectly under his control. So there is no real way to know what his "base" or Sage Mode alone is capable of.

I see no reason he should be weaker than Hashirama honestly, even if we remove Six Paths Senjutsu from the equation, he should still be stronger purely because he has Kurama at his disposal.

I would say the only arguement is that Hashirama has Tailed Beast Control abilities via his Wood Release. But the problem with that is the Wood Release, like the Sharingan, only surpresses or aggrevates the chakra in the Perfect Jinchuriki, it can't seal it away. That's why Sasuke couldn't do anything to during their fight, because even if he surpresses Kurama's chakra, it doesn't matter if the seal isn't active. So there's limitations to what "control" does. Even then, I doubt someone with a "controlling" ability can actual compete with a Perfect Jinchuriki. It's like Sasuke with his fight with B, even though he had both the Sharingan and Mangekyo Sharingan, both of which have surpression abilities on par with Wood Release, Sasuke really couldn't do anything against the level of control of a Perfect Jinchuriki.

I would say the minute Naruto became a Perfect Jinchuriki, he surpassed a lot of the Hokage in that moment. Hashirama and maybe prime Hiruzen are the only ones that I feel still compete at that level.

As for Sasuke and Madara, if you mean pre-Jinchuriki Madara, Sasuke is "supposed" to be stronger. I say this because Madara and Sasuke are in the same boat ability wise, except Sasuke possesses the mysterious "Six Paths Power" that gives him access to Amenotejikara and the his black Chidori. Seeing as Madara was running away in his Jinchuriki form when fighting that and Naruto, it should become clear that he doesn't match up normally.

Hey, JOA. Yeah it has been quite a while hasn't it.

I usually don't involve myself in the arguement debates, because ultimately either nothing gets changed on the site or the admins kind of just pull rank on the topic. That's what caused me to distance myself from the site in general.

1. Honestly, I don't agree with that, because the chakra cloak is obviously because of Kurama. It's be one thing if something was stated that the Six Paths Sage Mode and Tailed Beast Chakra are linked, but there isn't. Rather it was revealed that the Six Paths Sage Mode is a specialized senjutsu from created from typical senjutsu by Hagoromo. In other words, just like Asura and Hagoromo never had a cloak, I don't see it as being related. The reason they had that appearance was because of Naruto's status as a Jinchuriki and Toad Sage. The eyes may have very well been the mode, and the mode is "stacked" on the Kurama Mode. That is why there is no pigmentation around the yes, because it's essentially his Sage-enhanced Kurama Mode, but a more powerful version.

2. My issue with that is that senjutsu isn't sourced from Kurama itself. It has to be added seperately. So either it's Sage Mode or Six Paths Sage Mode. As the last showed, after the war, Naruto's Sage Mode Kurama transformation still has the pigmentation. Unless the new series explains why this pigmentation went a way. I would still assume it's Six Paths Senjutsu and thus Six Paths Sage Mode.

3. Did you mean to say "The Last"? It's true he used it during the war. But if you recall, he used Six Paths Sage Mode against Sasuke, and even made use of gathering nature energy like in a normal Sage Mode.

Basically, I feel the real question is "why" would Naruto lose it. What reasoning is the site giving to explain why Kishimoto would give Naruto this power and then allow Sasuke to retain all of his?

I also don't feel the Last is any sort of evidence. Because that's like saying Goku lost the Super Saiyan 3 form just because he stopped using it. Someone restraint is appropriate. As we saw, the battle with Toneri almost destroyed the Moon, so its possible that Naruto held back for the sake of the Moon and those on it, not because he couldn't have done further. Besides, as we saw, Naruto still beat him with limited difficutly.

People shouldn't get so caught up on the appearance of the cloaks, because as we see with the new manga and the movie, their appearances are constantly changing with no explanation. So either Naruto has more forms than we think, or the illustrator and the author don't care as much about the forms appearances as we do. And I feel it's probably the latter.

There you go.

Probably for the same reason Urahara and Aizen aren't higher usually, because he is not a main character. Besides, I feel Kaitou Kid is just as smart as well. But part of the reason he is ahead of Shinichi every once in awhile is because Shinichi doesn't get much practice actually fighting against people of a similar level of intellect as him. In Forensic fields its known as the fact that most criminals are idiots, adding only a superficial level of complexity to their crimes. That's why Shinichi can solve most of them because the crimes aren't meant to be difficult for him. The thing with Kaitou Kid is Shinichi is getting better by being challenged by him, but it works both ways, because Kaitou is getting better as well because he has such a critical viewer.

Once again, let me reinterate this. These lists are how their intelligence is "perceived" it isn't a dependable list because it is merely how the fans "perceive" who is smarter. For example, Shikamaru intelligence is on full display constantly throughout Naruto, in fact, its his defining quality. For Sasuke, his intelligence is always on full display, but its known he is also very intelligent.

Understand this, you can't expect me to explain "why this character is ranked higher than this character" because these are people's personal opinions. It's just unfair to expect me to understand how these people think.

Although, I will say even though Madara is indeed intelligent, his plan has more to do with psychoanalytics than actual genius. You don't need to be a genius to plan out psychoanalytics. Basically, all Madara had to do what makes sure two people were on board with his plan, Obito and Nagato, if he could make sure both played their parts, they'd do much of the other work for them. Making people's interest align with yours to insure success is part of being a cunning leader and manipulator. It has less to do with overall intelligence and more to do with a understanding of people.

And that's just it, from this plan we can tell not that Madara insanely intelligent, but rather he has a very good understanding of people and how they typically think. Which makes sense, because he is a very old person with a lot of historical knowledge.

As for the chess, that's not how you win all the time.

Do you play chess at all?

Figuring out your opponents strategy is only part of the game, you also have to be able to move in ways your opponent doesn't see. Basically, you have to discover their plans while hiding your own. In addition, the main purpose of the game is to force them into what's known as a zugzwang, "the squeeze". By forcing your enemy into a position they can't counter-attack from, that's how you win.

That's how Light beat L, that's how Lelouch beat his enemies. You steal all opposition and then you go for the throat.

Shinichi relies on the law to be his hammer, all he has to do is discover how a crime works and that's it.

So, imagine if the murder didn't always confess their crime like they do in Detective Conan. Which, believe it or not, is not how it works in the real world. Could Shinichi still be as impressive?

Basically, if you want to put Shinichi on Light and Lelouch's level, he needs not only to be able to solve the crime, but trap the murder into confessing without them having a choice. Which he's done on occassion, but its not a part of his usually MO.

If Yusaku entered in "action", do you think he would be able to find the Organization and all abt it?

I doubt it. Remember, the issue with the Karasuma Group is not finding it, it's finding important information without being discovered. The issue with that group is because they are so secretive, they kill anyone associated with any kind of leak. It's not just an issue with deduction, it's a spy game.

I mean, they have moles and undercover CIA in the group, so they've already been "found", the only problem is they can't collect intel without causing suspicion. Because everything is so hush-hush, even among the membership.

Right now, their concern over Shinichi is drawing Bourbon towards Shinichi which in turn gives them a chance because Bourbon is associated with Rum, who is associated with the Boss.

Oh yes I almost forgot Bourbon, I've seen often that fans compare him with Shinichi, Yusaku and Kid.

Can you list the smartest characters of Detective Conan as of your opinion?

You mean among those four?

Yusaku

Shinichi/Kid

Bourbon

I consider Shinichi and Kid to be of a similar level of intelligence, however, they specialize in different things. If Kid devoted as much time as Shinichi did to mysteries, his deduction skills would be just as good. Instead, Kid is much better at pranks, magic, and bluffs; because those are the things he specialized in.

You might argue that its slightly better to be Kid, because while Kid can pretend to be Shinichi, Shinichi can't pretend to be Kid.

1.Well if there are still people who are on similar level or a bit higher you can add them as well. 

2.Aslo if we add Yusaku, then how would you rank L, Light, Near, Lelouch, Shinichi, Yusaku and Schneizel?

1. I wouldn't bother, because there is no one else higher than Bourbon in my opinion, except maybe Akai.

2. They aren't on the same level. You have to understand Lelouch and Schneizel are military and political geniuses, it's unfair to put them on the same level as Near, Yusaku, and Shinichi. But, if I had to pick, I'd say its pretty fair to put Near, Shinichi, and Yusaku all on the same tier intelligence wise, with Light and L above them, and then Schneizel and Lelouch above them.

What about Heiji?

It's constantly implied that the other detectives are a tier below Shinichi. This includes Heiji, Eisuke, and Subaru.

Since only Shinichi and Akai have been shown outwitting Bourbon, I see no reason to say anyway is higher than him.

1.Who do you think are top five swordsmen in all anime/manga you've watched/read?

2.Is it true that Akira said that UI won't be shown anymore?

1. I don't really know, because I don't pay much attention to that sort of stuff or keep lists like that. Are we talking just raw technique or actual power? Because honestly, I don't think I know many more characters other than Sesshomaru or Inuyasha from Inuyasha that could actually take those two in a fight, since their sword powers are so busted. By the end of that series their swords were so powerful they pretty much would OHKO anything they swung their swords at.

I guess maybe Trunks and Ichigo could probably beat them, because Trunks is probably strong enough to almost destroy a universe with his level of power, so his ki-enhanced sword would be devastating to anything else. And Ichigo's reiatsu power from his sword swing would crush and obliterate anything "below" him, which is pretty much everything in that universe except Yhwach and Aizen. In Bleach, their reiatsu levels are so compressed that a human would be pulverized instantly just from coming into contact with their bodies.

I would say Kenshin Himura from Rurouni Kenshin is probably the most famous anime swordsman, and he has the most iconic technique. If I had to pick, hmm, I guess my favorite at the very least would be Meliodas from Nanatasu no Taizai, Trunks from Dragon Ball, Bell Cranel from Danmachi, although technically he uses a knife so he's a knifefighter, and maybe Ikki Kurogane from Rakudai Kishi no Eiyuutan.

I would say Kenshin and Ikki are probably my favorites, because I like the nature of their technique. Suigetsu as a concept is also very good, sadly Kishi didn't put much effort into his development, but seeing what Gengetsu could so, Suigetsu had the potential to be my favorite swordsman.

2. What makes you think it won't?

2. The reason I asked was because I've read the statement but wanted to make confirm it by asking you, there are many fans who go by the names of famous creators and make false statements like "Kishimoto said that if Boruto were to become Hokage, he would be the strongest of them all" and so on.

As for what i think. I think there is no way that UI shouldn't be used against Broly, at least logically, this is because it is stated that Broly is the strongest that Goku and co have faced, meaning he's stronger than Jiren too. Since Goku struggled in his fight with Jiren and also using UI, I honestly don't think of any way on how he can beat Broly without the use of UI.

Where did you see the "statement"?

Instagram, many fans stated like it was true.

That doesn't make it true. Instagram makes it particularly suspicious. I seriously doubt Toriyama would ever do that, since he spent a good 10% of Super developing it. I would say if they can't sight a source than you should treat it as a rumor and a fake.

What's more, there's no good reason to remove it from the series either. Toriyama's already engineered it so it "only" appeared when Goku "needs" it. In other words, its not a form Goku can volunteerly enter. That makes it perfect to be used in numerous ways. Namely when Broly is pushing Goku near the end of the fight.

If anything, it wouldn't surprise me if some fans started the rumor based on a mistranslation about the nature of Goku's use of Ultra Instinct. Namely, the fact he needs someone strong enough to push him to it, so the likelihood such a foe will appear is pretty slim, meaning the likelihood of seeing it at all would be just as unlikely. Broly, as being Jiren-level, would be one such a rare individual.

However, you are 100% right about Broly. There is official statements that are proven to be accurate that Toriyama is going to have Broly displayed as strong as Jiren, if not stronger. Making him the stronger opponent thus far.

In which case, unless Goku perhaps achieves the SSGSS Evolution form that Vegeta achieved and stacked it with Kaio-ken Blue, I'd doubt he could fight Broly. In fact, it should either be a tag-team battle between him and Vegeta against Broly or just an utter squash match. Kaio-ken Blue will probably push Broly in Legendary Super Saiyan, but after that, Ultra Instinct will be the only way.

Honestly, I feel most of the fight isn't going to be in Legendary Super Saiyan, the B-Type, form. It's probably going to be just in his A-Type form. It would seem he doesn't enter it until the climax of the fight, when he's already fought Freeza, Vegeta, and Goku (to an extent). In fact, it wouldn't surprise me since he's "rising" out of the ground in the trailer that Goku probably pressures him and he ends up going into it only after Goku has pushed his A-Type, which seems to be Blue-level, into a corner, probably with Kaio-ken Blue or something just as strong.

In fact, I'd almost not accept any other alternative. People are talking about fusion being a possibility, but I would hate that considering it was already established that the strong your power is, the shorter fusion lasts. In other words, a Super Saiyan Blue Vegito or Gogeta more than likely wouldn't last long enough to fight and defeat Broly. Especially Gogeta. Vegito only lasted 10 minutes out of 60 minutes. So Gogeta probably wouldn't even last 5 minutes. That is pretty pathetic.

In fact, I'd only accept fusion in the movie if it was used that way, to stress the fact that it isn't that useful anymore. It's like when I remember people crying for it in the Tournament of Power, it's already been nerfed by the time-limits to be almost useless, so its time for people to accept its not a suitable technique when someone is that strong like Merged Zamasu, Jiren, and Broly. Only back when it was a "permanent" Potara Fusion did it have any real value.

In fact, if Toriyama is going as far as to say Broly is the strongest ever, than that means he's stronger than Merged Zamasu too. Who I personally suspect is actually stronger than Jiren. Either way, it would mean fusion is useless.

Likewise, I feel many fans would hate if they defeated Broly the same way they did in the first movie, with Goku absorbing energy from everyone to gain a temporary boost necessary to kill him.

After all, if Beerus, Golden Freeza, Goku, and Vegeta all mixed their energy together, I'd suspect that could work logically. It would just be very lame.

So you mean that Merged Zamasu may be stronger than Jiren?

Yes, but it depends on a couple of factors.

Hear me out. I am aware that the editors have stated that Jiren is supposed to be stronger, but I have my doubts with whats been said in the story versus what they establish as fact.

Namely, even though Jiren was incredible in the tournament, I would never say he was over x4 to x5 times stronger than a Super Saiyan Blue. In fact, from what we saw, he can handle up to the equivalent of x4 Super Saiyan Blue in the form of both Goku and Vegeta in a form that doubles their power. He also suitably handled Android 17 at the same time with some difficulty. This implies he is somewhere between x4 and x5 as strong as a Super Saiyan Blue.

However, Merged Zamasu is stronger than that. Starting Off, he is made of two Super Saiyan Blue level enemies. Next the Potara Fusion is stated by Old Kai and Vados to multiple the power of the combined fusion "several times". In other words, they are a few times stronger than their combined power. Even on the low end that is around x6 to x8  a Super Saiyan Blue purely based on what's been said. That would mean purely based on that he's stronger than Jiren.

However, the manga has a saving grace for the editors because it points out that untrained SSGSS users, that is, users of Blue and Rose, who haven't learned to surpress the Godly ki within their bodies will slowly lose their power over the course of a fight. At which point they will only be about 1/10 as strong as when they start off.

While the anime never stated their weakness, several elements in the story implied that the weakness does exist in the anime as well. And the point techniques like Kaio-ken Blue and the God-Blue switching are meant to overcome these weaknesses.

If that's true, than it means Jiren is without a doubt stronger in the long-run. But like I said, it still establishes Merged Zamasu as stronger in the short-run. For about the first 10 minutes of his fight, Merged Zamasu was the strongest character in Dragon Ball; rivaled only by Vegito Blue, Daishinkan, and Zen'o.

So you mean not even and angel except Daishinkan isn't stronger than Merged Zamasu in the short-run?

Well if we include Dragon Ball heroes would Kanba be even stronger? I mean Vegito was toying with merged Zamasu while against Kanba he went all out and still wasn't able to do much (While Kanba being in base form). Honestly even if the fusion lasted more I doubt he would have done more than he did.

Yes. It was stated by Toriyama that if you consider Beerus a 10, Whis would be a 15, and Goku would be a 6. Which means that if you stood two Goku's together it would be a 12, and thus, stronger than Beerus but not stronger than Whis. However, if you put three Goku's together you get 18, which would be stronger than Whis.

So, I can't say for sure whether all the angels are the same power level, excluding Daishinkan, but Whis is without a doubt weaker than Jiren and Zamasu. He is stronger than x20 Kaio-ken Blue Goku, Evolution Vegeta, and Beerus though.

To be honest, Dragon Ball Heroes isn't really canon, and even if it is, its a parallel universe situation. So the rules don't actually apply there in that some of these characters can come from parallel universe where the base mode for all the characters is much higher than in other universes.

For example, in "our" universe, SSB Vegito can't even last 10 minutes in a fight, let alone have the strength to actually use Kaio-ken to push his power further. In fact, that would only defuse him faster. The only thing that even makes remotely any sense with that is if the SSB Goku and Vegeta were see in Heroes are from an alternative reality where SSB is much weaker than the one from the Super anime and manga.

So, with that it actually makes sense why the fusion lasted longer, allowing for Kaio-ken. Likewise, how SS4 Goku can actually fight SSB Goku, when in reality SSB should have him completely outclassed.

Also, you have to realize that when it comes to Kanba, a lot of stuff is inconsistent. His dark ki for example, which has no explanation. It's possible the dark ki acts similar to Godly ki. In which case, Kanba couldn't really be said be in a base.

Also, like I said, he may come from an alternate future where the bar is much higher. For example, if you brought SSB Goku and Vegeta from the universe where Kanba comes from, possibly Goku and Vegeta would be significantly stronger than the ones that are fighting him now.

Of course, I wouldn't discount Kanba being that strong. The difference really is the Golden Great Ape form more than anything. The next episode should do a better job of establishing his power limit, because if that is his strongest form, we might get some clearer answers.

If Goku Ul would be compared with Vegito full power, who do you think has more?

Or let's say on the short-run who would be stronger bertween the two?

That's very hard to say.

Logically, both characters are using a very limited time use power. Afterwards, they are pretty much trashed.

For Vegito, the more power he uses, the shorter the length of his fusion. However, he'd need at least Super Saiyan Blue to match/fight Ultra Instinct, which is Jiren-level. Otherwise, the power difference would be too large.

In which case, he could last 10 minutes at max. Afterwards, he'd de-fuse or drop to 10% of his max. Either way, he'd be screwed.

Goku on the other hand has the Ultra Instinct's time limit, which unlike Vegito's limitations, is not something that could not be overcomed.

Goku just needs more training, as he stands now, he'd probably lose. However, the tricky part with that is the almost Pure Progress-like quality of Ultra Instinct.

You see, when in Ultra Instinct, either the Omen or Mastered version, Goku shows characteristics of Hit's Pure Progress ability. Meaning he constantly gets stronger as he fights by simply fighting something stronger than stresses him.

For Hit, the ability isn't enough to make him stronger than someone like Jiren. But for Goku, it pushes him higher and higher, faster and faster because he's a Saiyan.

So, I'd suspect that, depending on how quickly Goku amasses strength using this, he could match Vegito. The question is that only really works if he can make Ultra Instinct last, which at present, he can't.

It's honestly why Super needs to continue or get a sequel. Because as of right now, Goku is weaker, but it wouldn't take much for him to overcome.

Likewise, it shows how limited the fusion is. If Goku can become stronger than Vegito can using fusion with the time limit, it shows how useless it is now.

1.Well if Whis trains Goku but going full power thus pushing Goku to enter UI maybe Goku would be able to overcome the time problem.

2.Let's say Naruto was fighting Kimoshiki alone without Sasuke and was in the same condition like he was in anime, how do you think the fight could have ended?

1. Well, the problem becomes the level of power we are talking.

You see the "time limit" isn't a sure thing, the reason there is a "time limit" is because Goku's body is not strong enough to maintain that advanced state because he is a mortal.

Ultra Instinct is a technique of Gods. It isn't meant to be wielded by mortals.

The normal order of things is supposed to be a mortal is found who can endure divine training. That mortal then learns to wield god ki and becomes a God of Destruction Candidate. The candidate will then master god ki to the point they can enter a God of Destruction form. After enough time, the form presumably becomes permanent.

Now, when it becomes permanent is usually when the thought of mastering Ultra Instinct is entertained. Because Ultra Instinct is the "limit breaking power of the gods", you are reaching above the power of a God of Destruction to an even higher power.

So, for Goku, he's skipping becoming an actual god and using his god ki training to push himself further into Ultra Instinct. So he's skipping steps. That is what's causing all the problems, because his mortal body can handle the stress of using the ki of a god and breaking that limit to reach even higher levels.

As a result, the power kicks his ass after about 2 minutes or less. And I doubt he can simply overcome that with enough training.

So, in reality, Goku needs to go through the correct order, become a God of Destruction, and in the process he can do things like train Ultra Instinct better, to enter and exit it without issue like Beerus can, and maybe even learn to use it passively like Whis.

Until then, its a last ditch effort trump card.

Now, what I'm saying about UI Goku vs. Vegito, is that there is a clear path for Goku to master his power and become stronger, wants he learns to wield Ultra Instinct effortlessly, he should be superior to Vegito due to the Pure Progress-like ability of Ultra Instinct. Or, at the very least, he should eventually be able to maintain the form long enough to catch up with Vegito Pure Progress-wise.

However, Vegito, even if he uses the Completed Blue that is shown in the manga or Kaio-ken, cannot get around the time limit of the Potara. Its a fundamental weakness of the fusion technique. So, ultimately, there is no way for Vegito to make himself stronger without sacrificing his time limit.

So, as it is right now, Goku is not stronger than Vegito. But given enough time or training, that would train, and there is nothing really Vegito can do about it.

2. Well, honestly, the biggest issue with the Momoshiki fight was Katsuke screwing up. If he isn't present and you meant Full Power Momoshiki against Naruto, Naruto would probably still win. It may be a tough fight since all the chakra he lost prior to the fight, but Naruto didn't even use his best techniques during the fight. In fact, he never used the Shadow Clone Technique on Kurama Mode either.

Well if he separated his left chakra from absorbtion while in Kurama Mode, wouldn't he have been at a disadvantage against Momoshiki's golem, or may he have used Tailed Beast Bomb he would have beaten the golem?

Also by best techniques you mean ninjutsu ones?

I'm not quite sure what you are saying, but if you are talking about the Kurama Asura Mode, no, that would help him because it would increase his chakra control.

You are forgetting he has Boil Release, which allowed him to even bat Kaguya around.

Honestly, he really didn't use any ninjutsu against Momoshiki, physical enhancements or otherwise during their fight in the movie, and even in the anime he only really used Shadow Clone Shuriken Jutsu.

Just because someone can absorb chakra doesn't mean they absorb everything even remotely associated with chakra.

No I was talking only about Naruto making clones while in Kurama Mode but not merging them with themselves, that's why I asked that wouldn't it be bad (if not fused) cuz of chakra separation.

Not necessarily. It wouldn't be any more dangerous than his normal use of it. It would give him more overall muscle and more bodies, but less chakra per clone to work with.

By this stage though, it's pretty clear Naruto's gotten too strong to depend on the Shadow Clone Technique like he did in the past. Rather, Naruto uses it more when he is fighting multiple enemies. Which is what the jutsu was more intend for in combat anyway.

If not for Boruto, could have Naruto or Sasuke done something to prevent their death from Momoshiki's attack when he captured them with Shadow Possession?

Hypothetically, yes.

Sasuke's Amenotejikara would have allowed him to attack Momoshiki and disrupte the technique, allowing Naruto to escape as well.

Also, the power of the Shadow Possession is only porportionate to the power of the user relate to his target. It's why the technique isn't very effect against stronger enemies. Even if Sasuke didn't attack Momoshiki fully force and get the technique released, he possibly could have stalled long enough for Naruto to recover his chakra and probably break out as through sheer power.

Would Sasuke be able to decapitate Kimoshiki using Amenotejikara? I mean let's say he throws a lightning senbon(or something similar), Kimoshiki tries to absorb it, then Sasuke shifts himself with the senbon and with his chokuto cuts his head off, or does Kimoshiki have better reflexes?(This is just like the question I asked Naruto vs Kimoshiki but now everyone is absent except Sasuke who is fighting a full power Kimoshiki.)

Well, now we are getting down to the question of Momoshiki's reflexes. Which I can't necessarily speak for.

To be honest, something I noticed during the fight in the anime is that Momoshiki "kept" falling for Amenotejikara. In fact, it got him every single time. Even Naruto, Kaguya, and Madara weren't that slow.

So, to be honest, Momoshiki's reflexes seem sub-par for his power class. So, I wouldn't hold it against Sasuke if he could just decapitated him.

That being said, there's a difference between switching something and teleporting himself in terms of speed for Sasuke.

Namely, Sasuke's ability to switch objects with Amenotejikara, including himself, is faster than his ability to just shift himself with presumably just air.

Well Kaguya never failed to react against Amenotejikara as far as I remember and Sasuke used it only one time on Madara, that being said if Naruto and Sasuke used Six Paths Chibaku Tensei instead of Magnet Rasengan and Chidori they would have been able to seal him and save the trouble of Kaguya and stuff, but surely that would have spoiled the new powers they got though.

You are correct, which is why I said Kaguya isn't as bad. An example would be when Sasuke used it to teleport right above her and she still dodged him.

As for Madara, he fell for it twice, but later after analyzing started to notice its weaknesses. Hence why he increased his speed so he could take advantage of Sasuke's limited range.

Naruto meanwhile has sharp enough reflexes to block a first attack straight on, but he didn't quite have the speed to dodge, which is still very impressive.

Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke their light and shadow powers and also rinnegan and six paths senjutsu as the only way to stop Madara.

If Naruto and Sasuke got the power up but didn't have light and shadow powers to perform Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, do you think there is a logical way they could have been able to kill Madara?(before he became complete immortal)

About that. The Yin and Yang Powers were specifically a fail safe in case Madara succeeded in in launching Infinite Tsukuyomi. Because, if Madara gained access to that much chakra, it would be the only way to defeat him.

While Naruto and Sasuke were clearly trying to seal Madara before the Infinite Tsukuyomi as well, we see them batterying him around without it as well. Hagoromo's chakra transfer caused a unique alteration in Sasuke's Rinnegan via the Six Paths Power he gets from Hagoromo. That is what gives Amenotejikara to Sasuke. Likewise, Naruto actualizes the ability to understand the nature of chakra and all universal things, basically giving him an instant learning ability.

So, even though the point of the chakra transfer was to give Sasuke the Rinnegan and the Yin Power and give Naruto the Six Paths Senjutsu and the Yang Power, it actually gives them more than just that. Madara pointed out that he also had the Rinnegan and Six Paths Senjutsu, but in actuality, it was these other abilities that made it harder for Madara to fight them because he had no way to handle the rapid movement of Sasuke and rapid development of Naruto.

So yes, I think that was a chance there could have killed Madara before the Infinite Tsukuyomi. In fact, I feel that was why Madara became so desperate to get his second Rinnegan so he could launch Infinite Tsukuyomi, because even though he essentially planned to fight Sasuke and Naruto before, after actually fighting them, he saw the actual danger.

Now, whether he could have taken them after he got his second Rinnegan is another matter, likewise if he had the Rinne Sharingan. The point kind of was that Madara priorized that launch of Infinite Tsukuyomi, and rightfully so. After all, after he activated it, almost all alternatives to the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei flew out the window.

It sounds like you're saying that getting both Rinnegan, Madara was able to awaken Rinne Sharingan.

But didn't Madara awake it after he absorbed Shinju, and that was before he got the second Rinnnegan though.

1.Also if Rikudou DR Madara(no Rinne Sharingan) was to take on Naruto and Sasuke, would they have been able to defeat him without the need of SPCT. (In other words if Madara didn't cast Infinite Tsukuyomi and they had countinued the fight when he came from Kamui dimension, who would have won)

That is what I'm saying.

If you go back and re-read the chapter where Madara awakens the Rinne Sharingan. He states that it is the power of the Rinne, i.e. the Rinnegan, that provides the catalyst for the Ten-Tails' Jinchuriki to awaken the Rinne Sharingan. When the Jinchuriki possess the Rinnegan in both eyes and draws near the Moon, the Rinne Sharingan will be awakened.

This is presumably why Obito never awakened it, despite having both one Rinnegan and the Ten-Tails, because he couldn't handle the power of both Rinnegan. So while he could manage to seal the Ten-Tails inside of him with only one eye, he couldn't actually awaken the Rinne Sharingan and cast Infinite Tsukuyomi himself. This is why he instead tried to use a Tailed Beast Mode to use the Shinju's own Rinne Sharingan to cast Infinite Tsukuyomi for him. It was a clever work around since Madara made it clear that his method was the one written on the tablet, not Obito's.

Now, the husk of the Shinju that Madara absorbed had nothing to do with it. All that did was allow Madara to quickly heal from Yagai's damage and absorb the chakra that was left in the husk. The real power was the Ten-Tails that was already inside of him at that point.

1. What I meant in the last paragraph is that there is no exact way to answer that, since they never got to truly fight. Instead, Madara almost immediately activated the Rinne Sharingan and launched Infinite Tsukuyomi, jumping from one tier to the next in terms of strength.

Of course, what we do know is that Obito was very desperate to prevent Madara from getting his second Rinnegan. According to Obito, the power Madara wields as a natural Rinnegan user with both his eyes is beyond human. If he were to have both on top of being the Jinchuriki, Obito implied it would be a nightmare of unimaginable proportions.

Now, the video game implies that Naruto and Sasuke could still defeat Madara in that state, but it would be with much greater difficulty than if they fought him with only one Rinnegan. Of course, the video games are not canon and not an acceptable form of evidence.

What if they are adults and at full power fighting Rikudou DS no RS Madara(I know, I know that you don't know their full power cuz' it was never shown but I'm asking only for what you know and expect)

What are you talking about? If I don't know, how would I know what to expect. I'm sorry, but I try to keep my answers as objective as possible. It would be one thing if we actually saw something from Madara with his Rinnegan and Jinchuriki power, but we never really did besides his Limbo and Chibaku Tensei. If I don't know anything, I can't give an answer.

Besides, we haven't seen Naruto and Sasuke's full capabilities either. The enemies so far have been mid-dif level at best. I seriously doubt either Naruto or Sasuke had shown what they are now capable of, especially since all they did is use powers they already had decades ago.

How would you rank Hokage (excep Naruto) if they were to use taijutsu only?

That's pretty tricky.

Remember, Kabuto pointed out Hashirama's abilities were not fully understood by others because of their naturally high-level. Meaning his taijutsu could be superior to the others and it wouldn't have been recognized.

Other than that, Naruto stated that Tobirama was considered the best in taijutsu among the Hokage. Even though Tsunade could probably do more damage, I'd imagine Tobirama just had superior technique.

It's also something to be said that Hiruzen was able to fight both Tobirama and Hashirama at the same time despite this.

So, if I had to guess.

Hashirama is probably #1
Tobirama is probably #2
Hiruzen is probably #3
Tsunade is probably #4
Minato is probably #5
Kakashi is probably #6

1.Can you tell me at what episode did that happen?

2.But weren't they at 20% or so of their power?

Wouldn't FTG rank Minato higher than Tsunade, I mean he can just use that and boom her head is on the ground before she even realizes Minato moved.

1. I don't really recall, I seem to remember it was around the Chunin Exam arc when Lee was shown using it.

2. It wasn't that low, besides, Hiruzen had his own handicap since he was old at the time.

That's not taijutsu though, that's ninjutsu. You can't account for Space-Time Ninjutsu is a taijutsu only comparison.

So only martial arts huh?

What about Shunshin?

Not necessarily, taijutsu is a more generalized form of martial arts, it's basically any form of hand-to-hand combat.

Yeah, that's ninjutsu too. If you have questions about a technique, just check Narutopedia, that will let you know if its taijutsu or not.